Building a Smith Generator (topic erroneously marked solved!)

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sampojoe posted this 12 January 2018

I am starting work on building a Smith Generator.  Thanks to your work here, I am getting the role of Bucking Coils on the circuit.  I found this link for starters, a pdf that purports to tell you how to build one:  

projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=25399

I extracted another schematic and made it an attachment below.  What they do not mention anywhere in the document is that coil L2 most likely is a Bucking Coil, as you have most eloquently shown here!  I guess they do say it is a "Tesla Coil".  I guess that could be a Partnered Output Coil.  I have seen similar schematics on youtubes by kdkinen, where he shows his replication attempts seemingly at least generating OU.  His schematics I can clearly see the Partnered Output Coils.  So with this understanding I think I will attempt a replication.   It seems very simple.  You use a 30 ma NST to get thousands of volts.  The front of the the circuit as shown uses a small inverter driven by a 12v battery to get 120v AC, which is fed thru a variac to control the input voltage to the NST.  The final output is supposed to be up to 8000v @ ~20A DC, as the L1/L2 is 4:1 step-up!   Pretty astounding.

I am not going to use a battery to run an inverter to drive the system.  I will just initially plug my variac into the wall.  You do need a real sine wave input for this.

So the front of the circuit feeding L1 starting with the output of the NST is grounded at the center point tap of the NST.  The output of the NST is rectified to extract the starting HV and then reconverted to AC with a spark gap tuned with resistors and caps to the coil L1 for about 31.5 kHZ AC .

Here is a hand drawn schematic online and in the pdf : Hand Drawn Don Smith Schematic

I got a little excited about solving the performance issues of the L1 circuit and clicked the solved button thinking it just applied to the post by Marathonman showing how Tesla built such circuits. But no, it got applied to the entire trhead, and is apparently a big database issue to correct.  So please ignore the green solved check!

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Chris posted this 12 January 2018

Hi Sampojoe - This is awesome!

If I may, Don Smith made many videos, but very little actual news coverage, very little anywhere except for the videos.

However, the videos contain really good and very accurate information. Careful counting of the turns, there is a 1 to 4 ratio. This is a common theme in these devices.

My main and best snippet id:

 

The Coil Don marks as L2, is actually 2 Coils. I have fount it much easier to think of them this way.

 

 If one treats each Coil Separately, then one can also measure the Current in each Coil and ensure that the Currents are opposing. By Measuring the Currents, one can view direct improvements. But be careful, High Voltage and Current can damage equipment very quickly!

Don Smith was a big believer in the One Quarter Wavelength principle:

One Half Wavelength:

 

One Quarter Wavelength:

 

I also have seen the same importance, and its also been pointed out by many others before:

Resonance frequencies may be maintained quite constant at high power levels so long as the load remains constant. We are all familiar with AM and FM propagation, where in the case as AM, the voltage amplitude varies, and with FM, the frequency is modulated.


 However, the output power sees a constant load impedance, that of the matched antenna system. If this changes, the input to the antenna is mismatched, and standing waves are generated resulting in a loss of power.

Floyd "Sparky" Sweet - Magnetic Resonance

I have said it before, I am still learning, I will always be a student of Life, I do not have all the answers, but I have seen this importance before. When the right Resonance is achieved, the Coils Magnetic Fields Oppose, the Currents are 180 Degrees out of phase, and excess Power is the "Generated" by the Laws of Electromagnetic Induction. Another of my favorite Videos:

 

I know you have great knowledge in these areas, and much of what I have said is most likely obvious to you, but wanted to try to help.

Don Smith did write one of the pdf documents, I have a copy here: Don Smith

Thank You for your post, please keep us updated!

   Chris

 

sampojoe posted this 12 January 2018

I am starting to line up parts, figuring out the coil build...  If anyone knows anything about this comment would be appreciated.  

wow Chris, thanks, so much info so fast!  Yes I can't help thinking of the L2 as 2 separate coils also. After all I cannot see something being called one coil when it is wound clockwise for half of it and then reversed to counter-clockwise for the second half!

Regarding your first video snippet, I had watched that on youtube before somewhere, and I thought Don was being somewhat deceptive about it being "one coil with the center cut out".  That would imply both parts would be wound in the same direction, while the essential feature of bucking coils are 1/2 CW and the other wound CCW.  After all I think he would've wanted to protect some secrets so he has a chance of making some money and a living off it ;-)

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sampojoe posted this 12 January 2018

The L2 coil in the pdf is described as a Barker & Williamson Airdux Coil here.  But again that is indicating its a "one coil" thing.  I suppose they could make those coils CW and CCW, but it would have to be a special manufacture request possibly.  They make no distinction when ordering.  But I will try to build it myself I think.  I would like to use insulated wire as opposed to bare. I can't imagine it would change anything but make it safer.  The oscillation frequency on the L1 would be any high amount that you get by adding in the parts accordingly and then it is supplied by the spark gap, I surmise.  Then the L2 capacitance and inductance would have to be more carefully matched at this 1:4 ratio.

 

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Chris posted this 12 January 2018

Hey Sampojoe, Agreed. Thanks for the link.

I have reason to believe, and I may be wrong here, but I believe it may be possible that the Parallel Resonant Cap on half of L2, might possibly be a Harmonic of the Primary Resonant Frequency, maybe the second Harmonic.

Don Smith might have been good at drawing Circuits, but he most definitely knew most of the technical aspects about Coils, LC Tanks and Wavelength Theory.

I have said before, and as you already know, some of these devices need to be Grounded, to Earth, and not Negative as such.

   Chris

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sampojoe posted this 12 January 2018

In the youtube "don smith seminar on how to make it"  at the 24m mark you can see he holds up PN NPS 12010, which I believe is 120v at 10kv.   I ordered this at ebay, 10000V-10KV-30mA-Neon-Electronic-Transformer-Power-Supply-Rectifier-50Hz-60Hz.  I assume since it says its rectified, its DC output, which will save the diodes & rectification on the spark gap side of the circuit I do believe.

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sampojoe posted this 12 January 2018

So that would coincide with the 1/4 ratio/wavelength, making it a factor of 4 harmonic?

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Chris posted this 12 January 2018

Hey Sampojoe,

Possibly the 4th harmonic, but this would not give us a very good Current Phase relationship in the two Coils marked as L2.

I believe, possibly the 2nd harmonic, may be better because at the sine at 1/4 wavelength on the second harmonic is a forced function of the wavelengths interactions together, for example, they would be opposite at 1/4 wavelength when in resonance.

This way, as long as the system is in Resonance, the Coil L2 would have opposite phase no matter what, Q would go sky high.

Been a long hot day, am tired so hope this is readable and make a little sense at least?

   Chris

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sampojoe posted this 15 January 2018

In the YT video I mentioned above, "Don Smith Seminar How to make it" Don is interviewed for about an hour and discusses many things.  I am sure it is in one of your videos Chris, and there is that wonderful Don Smith YT Channel you've found too.  At the 37m mark, Donspecifically stated that the circuit does not have to be tuned or run at a resonant frequency.  He said that the NST is pumping the L1 circuit as the driver and provides what the circuit needs.  I am parapharsing from memory here.  So I would say the circuit should be built to operate near what the spark gap would provide if tuned, something in the RF range, but is not the critical factor to have resonance, and be perfectly tuned.  So clearly what may be important would be the jagged waveform generated by the sparkgap, the high voltage, the step-up to even higher voltage and the Bucking coils to rip open the zero point energy field.  I am eager to put an O-scope on it when I get something going.

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sampojoe posted this 15 January 2018

I am moving a little slow on this project as I am finishing up a tesla style DC asymmetric motor first, another couple weeks.  It is a real beast with dual commutators eliminating stupid Edison motor Counter EMF.  I have added in some circuitry to try to reclaim all the energy that should be rattling around in those coils I am kind of excited about and have been working on it for many months off and on...  Its a pretty big motor.  These style motors run at nearly twice the RPM as the Edison style motors.

Chris posted this 15 January 2018

I am sure it is in one of your videos Chris, and there is that wonderful Don Smith YT Channel you've found too.  At the 37m mark, Donspecifically stated that the circuit does not have to be tuned or run at a resonant frequency.

Hey Sampojoe, re the bit about resonance above, if I may suggest, stay reserved on this. I think this is very important, all my experiments show a Resonance is best. Don Smiths book is titled: "Resonant Energy Systems", so it might be an idea to stay very reserved on this.

Only trying to help, don't want to shut doors before you get to them.

   Chris

 

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sampojoe posted this 16 January 2018

Roger that, reading and listening.  Planning a 3-5kw system with grid-tie capability.  Incredible that the system shown in your pic above, and spoken of in videos listed and covered in the pdf with build directions is supposed to be able to do 160KW, or 8000v at 20 amps!  Figuring components...

Chris posted this 18 January 2018

having trouble finding the bit in the video you mentioned Sampojoe, did you get my PM?

Don did say:

If youre going to go the Magnetic Resonance route, the world is your oyster.

Don Smith - @40:40 Don Smith Resonant Energy Devices Video - 2006 Tesla Tech

 

We know, we have Experiments to prove this is true, Magnetic Resonance, where the Currents are 180 Degrees out of Phase is very important. One being The Mr Preva Experiment.

   Chris

sampojoe posted this 18 January 2018

I have some points of confusion in mapping terminology to designing the coils in the circuit.  My pdf I listed is calling one or both of the coils a Tesla Coil as does Don Smith in any one of his videos discussing this device.  

  • Is the entire L1/L2 assembly a Tesla Coil design derivative?  Not sure if Don just has extreme familiarity and just never describes the details of the construction, is concealing something, or just expects you to be able to build and hook one up blindfolded.  
  • When I studied a Tesla Coil it was composed of a tower coil with many winds all in the same direction.  The pancake coil was described as bifilar with the two wires connected on one end, and had much fewer turns.  I believe the pancake coil in this construction is the bucking coil because if you follow the current down one wire to the joined end going in one winding direction, the current reverses here and unwinds its way out.  So this L1/L2 construction is the opposite, with the bucking coil having more turns.  Is this analysis correct so far?
  • L1 is the "Primary" coil, where power is inserted, and L2 is the bucking coil, but in the Tesla Coil construction I describe, the pancake , or bucking coil, looks to be the primary.  If this is a correct analysis, it looks like things can be switched around and it all depends on what is needed from the circuit for the desired results, step-up, step-down, whatever.

Chris posted this 18 January 2018

Hi Sampojoe - If I may clarify, what device are you going to build?

In your original post I thought it was the Early device;

 

But after your last post I am not sure. Can you post a picture of which device you have planned?

   Chris

Chris posted this 18 January 2018

I have just seen the Video you were referring Sampojoe:

 

At the 37 minute mark Don goes into a method I have no idea about. I have not had any luck with this sort of circuit, tried similar things a few time but truly not spend enough time to say weather this works or not. I simply just don't know, for all I know, it might.

The success I have had, are only with the other methods. Mentioned above. Where turns, wavelengths and frequencies are adjusted to get the system to work.

The Image above works, this method is very similar to the Kapanadze work, and also follows closely the work of Floyd Sweet. As well as many others.

Those that want to learn can start with The Mr Preva Experiment, Dom Smith's device shown above, is the Scaled Up Version of The Mr Preva Experiment.

   Chris

Chris posted this 18 January 2018

In the below video, watching and listening carefully to what Don is saying when he wraps the Looped Cable around his arm, he describes what we have covered for years also:

 

   Chris

 

sampojoe posted this 18 January 2018

Yes I am planning exactly the early unit. I really want to build something a little less lethal, say 3-5KW, not 160KW capable.  I saw him describe a 2KW system for a vending machine & refrigeration unit in Japan.  I am thinking the capacitor bank just needs downsized a bit.  

Concerning the last video posted, I am fairly sure it is the earlier device, identical to the picture posted here, which he started explaining at about the 30m mark.  He is just isolating the L1 at 37m.  

Since I am confusing things with my questions in the previous post, let me ask simply to make sure we understand things, 

Would you agree that the L2 of his early system is a Bucking Coil?

I have found another description of a build on-line for a 2kw system.  I have tried to clean it up with some additional explanations I have added.  It has a nice parts list and explains power transmission on the L2 nicely, but it looks like the 160kw early system.  I am going to try to attach it and my original document also for readers.

I want to make this a grid-tie system.  So the question is how to get from ~8000vdc to 12-48vdc.  I am thinking I should not rectify it, but maybe step down the AC voltage first with a transformer, just keep stepping it down until I get it within range for a particular grid-tie inverter.  

Chris, do you think I could insert a step-down operation without breaking the circuit? or maybe not going 4:1 but maybe 3:1, after all I only want 3-5KW.

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Chris posted this 18 January 2018

Yes I am planning exactly the early unit. I really want to build something a little less lethal, say 3-5KW, not 160KW capable.  I saw him describe a 2KW system for a vending machine & refrigeration unit in Japan.  I am thinking the capacitor bank just needs downsized a bit.  

Concerning the last video posted, I am fairly sure it is the earlier device, identical to the picture posted here, which he started explaining at about the 30m mark.  He is just isolating the L1 at 37m.  

WOW, if I may suggest: "Little Steps for Little Feet" Start at the start and work forward. Compare what we have talked about already, learn what the requirements are, study, first. 

 

Since I am confusing things with my questions in the previous post, let me ask simply to make sure we understand things, 

Would you agree that the L2 of his early system is a Bucking Coil?

I am a firm believer in hard facts. Perhaps the following snippet, applying the Right Hand Grip Rule, will answer:

 

I also think the last video I posted, with the Looped Cord, wrapped around Don's arm answers this question. Don does say several times, mentions "Generators" and how the Fields oppose.

 

I have found another description of a build on-line for a 2kw system.  I have tried to clean it up with some additional explanations I have added.  It has a nice parts list and explains power transmission on the L2 nicely, but it looks like the 160kw early system.  I am going to try to attach it and my original document also for readers.

I want to make this a grid-tie system.  So the question is how to get from ~8000vdc to 12-48vdc.  I am thinking I should not rectify it, but maybe step down the AC voltage first with a transformer, just keep stepping it down until I get it within range for a particular grid-tie inverter.  

I would stick to the known facts, not diverge at all, go with what you know to be true.

Then apply known laws of Electromagnetic Induction and expand that just a little.

Chris, do you think I could insert a step-down operation without breaking the circuit? or maybe not going 4:1 but maybe 3:1, after all I only want 3-5KW.

Again, I would not change a thing. Keep everything the same. Throw a bunch of incandescent Bulbs on the end like in the Videos.

I was late to the table with Don Smith. I did not intensely study until well after all my research with Floyd Sweet. I spent a long time proving things wrong, chasing red hearings, and in the end spending a lot of money where I did not need to.

What happened to me? Over night I evolved. It clicked, my small, basic very simple experiments paid off. I learnt about Electromagnetic Induction, carrying a Magnet and Coil around all the time while in the Lab, the coil was always short circuited, and always the coil would expel the Magnet, always appearing to be a greater Magnetic Field from the Coil than from the Magnet. But why?

Time Rate of Change.

Don Smith is spot on! On occasion he may not give the best information, perhaps he did not like the other person. But Don's basic layout and how it all works is spot on! We have proof, we can experiment on the bench and prove what he says to be true. It may not always be easy, but it does work as stated. The Mr Preva Experiment proves what Don says to be true, Floyd Sweet proves Don to be true.

Primary, 4 Turns, Secondary 17 Turns, then Centre Tapped, and Tertiary another 17 Turns, the Tertiary opposes the Secondary, the Secondary Opposes the Primary and the Tertiary assists the Primary, so: 1 + -1 + 1 = 1

What's the End Goal:

  • Amplify Voltage
  • Amplify Current

We do know how to do it, the very simple steps are laid out. Its just a case of following the guide. Lay out the Plan and stick to it.

   Chris

 

Chris posted this 18 January 2018

Hey Sampojoe - Why is a Common Mode Choke not OU? What's the true purpose, and what does it truly do?

There is a few reasons, but one in particular I am looking for.

Why do we have a Power Correction Ratio, or a Power Factor? What's its purpose?

   Chris

Chris posted this 18 January 2018

A little more Hard Data from Don: @3: 30

 

Ah, the devices I have invented, which there are a number of them, they all, ah, actually, accelerate Electrons. Theyre Electron Accelerators.

Don Smith 1998 Office Interview Part 3 @3: 30

 

We have heard this before, a very simple experiment proves this, The Mr Preva Experiment.

   Chris

Chris posted this 20 January 2018

There has been some confusion and as a result some disagreement about recent posts on this thread.

Accurate, indepth study of the basic principles of Energy "Generation" will clear up any and all confusion. One must be willing an able to take fundamental Facts and move forward.

The Right Hand Grip Rule is an important method of interpretation.

 

Which interprets directly to:

Which is exactly what Don Smith has already told us in His Book: "Resonant Energy Systems":

 

Observing the Arrows Don Smith indicated also gives a very clear and definite indication of the Fields associated in his Coils.

Fundamental Fact: Lenz's Law is Equal and Opposite, Lenz's Law is the Direction of Energy that is "Generated" in regards to its Source.

FYI, in 2014 I posted this image

 

At the time, none understood its importance, none investigated. Why?

What happens when the Input gets switched off?

Please people, observe the fundamental facts, do not let anything get in the way of Facts! For they are our only real Tool other than Truth!

   Chris 

sampojoe posted this 26 January 2018

I have started a blog to post images from.  Here is the high level schematic of the generator from the Project Avalon Construction Guide.  SG HL schematicI would like to focus on the Neon Tube Driver.  In Don's instruction videos about building this system, he uses a model NST 12010.  I believe it is  a 120VAC input, 10KVDC output.  I believe any Neon Sign Transformer NST) will work of similar specs.  You could probably use a lower value, as the out-put of the step-up Tesla coil to the capacitor bank is 8KV.  To avoid overdriving them, the variac must operate the NST at a fraction of the voltage.  I have ordered an NST of the 10KV design, and it appears to have a rectified output already.  I can't seem to find anywhere that they bother to explain it, assuming that we all know how exactly neon signs work, if we are buying a replacement ;-)  If DC as I suspect, what are the pair of diodes doing on the output side?  I think I heard in a Don Smith video or it may be in the Project Avalon document that they may be needed to catch and stop flyback voltages associated with the spark gap operation on the L1 coil.  If anyone can confirm that the NST's output is DC, I would appreciate it.

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sampojoe posted this 26 January 2018

Here is the well-known picture of the Early Smith Generator which has all major components enumerated. Component 1 is a 12v inverter Don used to prove he could output way more power the available by the small 12v battery used to run the system.  I intend to eliminate that and just plug the variac into mains 110vac.  2 is the variac.

Early Smith Generator w/numbered parts

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Chris posted this 26 January 2018

I believe this is fairly close:

 

 

   Chris

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sampojoe posted this 27 January 2018

Concerrning component 6 in the above photo of the DS generator,I believe they are the diodes on the NST output lines.  The designations can't be read but they do have a line on one side like a diode of that type of body should.  They are on the schematics.  If the diodes are catching flyback voltages, you can't go wrong using them in the circuit, as flyback voltages can get high also and might prevent NST burn-out. I think the NST puts out rectified voltages.  If it were AC, usually a bridge rectifier would be used to get all the energy,  and having 2 lines would be unusual.  I would assume that both as DC, its just combining for power distribution.

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sampojoe posted this 30 January 2018

I have been going over the Energetic Forum Don Smith thread and have also found the kdkinen channel on youtube on the Don Smith Generator.  It turns out that kdkinen must be Mr. Clean on that thread, which Chris has mentioned he tried to share there about page 380 above.  kdkinen has many videos, and they are not easy to go thru. But he starts off not having much success getting the extra power, and its instructive as he goes over voltages and performance of various components.  But he has a moment where he stumbles across the Partnered coils arrangement because he just plays with connections.  He is using clockwise coils on both sides of L2, of course the fundamental mistake in the Don Smith Generator.  But at 2:52 he states "rather than trying to centertap the middle of both clockwise coils" and previously tries to explain a "parallel" connection of coils.  He is actually hooking up the end of the left coil to the centertap.  So he is now driving current from left to right in the clockwise coil which would create identical magnetic fields as a correct Partnered output coil with current going from right to left CCW!  Even a blind squirrel can find a nut sometimes ;-)  

sampojoe posted this 30 January 2018

Component 10 area has 2 HV resistors.  This must be the voltage dividers attached to the L2 circuit as shown in the hand drawn schematic.  These would get very hot.  I plan on using transformers to step down voltages before rectifying them.  I am currently looking for the right circuit software to draw up a complete schematic, hopefully reflecting all values of components.

Chris posted this 30 January 2018

With Coil Turns and Direction of Voltages and Currents, a very small cheap and quick experiment like The Mr Preva Experiment can teach you all you need to know.

I have covered three configurations in my Thread: Some Coils Buck and Some Coils DONT.

I think it is smart to work on a small cheap scale to learn as much as possible, scaling up later on is easy.

The following Video shows how the Currents Oppose, one to the Left and one to the Right, Mr Preva Style:

 

Which is exactly what Floyd Sweet told us:

In the specific case of positive charges moving to the right and negative charges to the left, the effect of both actions is positive charge moving to the right. Current to the right is: (See Below Equation)

Negative electrons flowing to the left contribute to the current flowing to the right.

Floyd "Sparky" Sweet - P.2 The Space-Flux Coupled Alternator

 

 

When you have Current Opposition, you know you are "Generating" this Current, it is MUCH easier to measure at low Voltage/Current levels, then getting a Voltage Polarity right, and then work on Turns and Frequency.

I don't encourage, and never have, building large scale devices unless one is very experienced, they are just too dangerous! Start small, start cheap, learn as much as one can with simple experiments. Trust me, you will be so much better off!

   Chris

 

P.S; Ask yourself, Why did Stan Meyer have a Diode in a Tuned RLC Resonant Circuit:

 

Marathonman posted this 30 January 2018

Well look what i have sitting in my closet collecting dust.

 

Marathonman

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Chris posted this 30 January 2018

Component 10 area has 2 HV resistors.  This must be the voltage dividers attached to the L2 circuit as shown in the hand drawn schematic.  These would get very hot.  I plan on using transformers to step down voltages before rectifying them.  I am currently looking for the right circuit software to draw up a complete schematic, hopefully reflecting all values of components.

Hi Sampojoe - I believe Components 10 are Parallel Diodes, not resistors:

 

 

Hand Drawn Don Smith Schematic

 

The two diodes seen in the diagram you posted. As I pointed out before, in the Stan Meyer Circuit, Why is a Diode placed in a Tunned RLC Resonant Circuit?

@Marathonman, you're nearly there! Nice Coils!

   Chris

sampojoe posted this 30 January 2018

Beautiful Partnered Coils there, has that mirror image quality!  Roger that Chris on the diodes and not resistors.  I must point out discrepancies in the hand drawn circuit and the this High level schematic: Hi-level SchematicThe hand-drawn one I believe has errors.  It is showing the use of resistor voltage divider, which is just one method, although crude, to get a desired voltage, after all it is supposed to be many thousands of volts at that location, which I tried erroneously to map onto the photograph.  This hi-level has none, leaving it up to the builder to divise a method to step-down the voltage.  I do only see 2 diodes in the photograph.  Are they the two closest to L2 in the hand-drawn image or should there just be a bridge rectifier?  Bridge rectifiers recover the most voltage, so I lean toward that, but the hand-drawn bridge does not seem to have a chance to function properly there as it is already receiving a half-wave rectified signal from each of the other diodes closer to L2.  I think it should just have a bridge rectifier.  Looking at the high-level diagram, there are the 4 diodes.  I believe they are in a bridge rectifier arrangement there, which I plan to build into my first attempt.  Also the Bridge rectifier in the hand-drawn image is definitely on the wrong side of the capacitor bank.  It must rectify voltage going into the bank if the capacitors are going to charge.  All in all, a fairly unreliable amateurish circuit.

Concerning the Mr. Preva experiment, I have trouble following the connections and coil wiring.

OH please note, did anyone catch on the Don Smith videos, presenting his generator designs how he kept asking someone to please calculate the energy input and output of the NST, and see how the manufacturer was blatantly stating that the it was Overunity!  So Chris in your spec shot on the NST lets take a look!

input: 12v @ 5A = 60w   output: .03A @7500v = 225w  

Isn't that interesting.  Reminds me of Gerard Morin's work.

sampojoe posted this 09 February 2018

My Don Smith source document I posted in the beginning of this thread states:

"The output of the neon-tube driver circuit is used to drive the primary "L1" winding of a Tesla Coil style transformer. This looks ever so simple and straightforward, but there are some subtle details which need to be considered.  The operating frequency of 35.1 kHz is set and maintained by the neon-tube driver circuitry, and so, in  theory, we do not have to do any direct tuning ourselves."

My NST will be here any day now, but I am still puzzled at how it might be working.  Is it 10KV DC or AC?  Is the spark gap giving us AC?  But why would it oscillate at exactly 35.1 kHz?  Oh well I will find out soon, but the above statement supports a Don Smith statement about tuning I referred to earlier and posted the video.

Here is a schematic of what I would like my final system to look like.  I plan on using a microwave transformer to step down the voltage to about 50v for input to inverters, either a standalone or grid-tie.

Planned Smith Desigh

I am trying to correct a problem in the hand drawn image vs the simpler high level schematic from my source document with the bridge rectifier.  I am a little unsure of the deciphering of the bridge rectifier in the hand drawn circuit, between the ground and cap C2 placement.  I believe C1 and C2 are tuning caps to get the coil to perform at the frequency called out for the NST, which I am still trying to understand.

Chris posted this 09 February 2018

Hey Sampojoe - Another great post.

Don said on many occasions he calculated the Coils/Lengths of wire and got it spot on for the Frequency.

I have been stuck on these calculations for  along time. I am aware of much Antenna Theory, RLC Resonance with Damping Factor, many other equations also, but I am still short of being able to get the figures required.

Have you done any Calculations to try to work out the factors required?

   Chris

sampojoe posted this 09 February 2018

Just getting to that, but still am winding my asymmetric motor alot ;-).  I will start with the instructions in my source document.  I plan on building L2 as an air coil, as opposed to wrapping it around a PVC pipe, as my document indicates there could be some attenuation at RF frequency.  I am going to use my Navy electrician manual to compute a Henry value for L1 and L2.  A copper weight ratio of 4:1 between L1 and L2 is used in the document for starters. 

Chris posted this 10 February 2018

I have done a lot of calculations in an attempt to further understand, or try to understand the theory.

Dons machine I was late to the party on, did not study much till only a few years ago. I had read and did now but I was concentrating on the VTA.

Don Smith's Coils: using 2 Pi r N

L1:

  • Length: 95.75 CM - not including Lead Length.
  • Calculated Inductance: 2.85 Microhenryies, approximately, however LCR Resonant Inductance is 102.5 Microhenries approx:
    • Resistance: 22.67 Ohms (XC)
    • Inductance: 102.5 µH
    • Capacitance:0.2 µF
    • Frequency: 35.1514 KHz
    • Series DF: 0.500733
    • Parallel DF: 0.499268
    • Bandwidth: 35.2030

 

 

The Wavelength at 35.1 KHz is 8541.1 meters, across a Coil of: 0.9575 meters.

 

L2: Each Half

  • Length: 406.96 CM - not including Lead Length
  • Calculated Inductance: 51.5 Microhenryies, but, could be, and should be a lot more, if the ratio above is anything to go by, we should see an inductance of around: 1852.19 µH.
  • First Harmonic, the Fundamental:
    • Resistance: 408.50 Ohms (XC)
    • Inductance: 1852.19 µH
    • Capacitance:11.1 nF
    • Frequency: 35.1007 KHz
    • Series DF: 0.500012
    • Parallel DF: 0.499988
    • Bandwidth: 35.1016

My figures could be completely wrong, they are all calculated from the Coils Dimensions and other known factors.

I would be interested to see what others can come up with?

   Chris

sampojoe posted this 13 February 2018

I have gotten my NST today!  So time to get serious, coil construction to be started soon.  I want to put an O-scope on the NST, for starters.  (My motor project is nearing completion, getting that off the table.) Found a great video on youtube about building and tuning a tesla coil ! 

Got my college texts on Electricity and Magnetism, my USN manual, and the basic idea of an RLC circuit is to only permit the oscillation of the tuned frequency where Capacitive Reactance is equal to Inductive Reactance, showing how the values are calculated.  This seems like quite the juggling act when you throw in the frequency variation achieved with changing the spark gap.  I am not sure where I have seen my previous explanation of the construction of the pancake coil of a tesla coil, involving a bifilar filament, which makes it the equivalent of a Partnered output coil to eliminate Lenz's law.  It might have been a Tesla patent.  However, it seems a lot of these Tesla coils online don't exhibit this structure... ?  I think the first step is to just get L1 to operate at it's harmonic frequency, somewhere in the RF range (near 35.7kHz), and determine what it is.  Then try to build L2 around that.

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sampojoe posted this 20 February 2018

OK here it is, my first overunity device, my new NST:

my NST I just ordered  

check it out:

input .8A x 110vac = 88 watts

output: .03A x 10000 vac = 300 watts

I can quit now.  (joke)  ;-)

Just re-iterating what Don stated in one of his YT presentations.  It was funny, he was taunting anyone in the audience to verify if the NST was an off-the-shelf OU device, begging someone to perform this calculation.

So my NST output  is AC.  In my source document at the beginning it states this about the NST:

"The neon-tube driver circuit is a standard off-the-shelf device used to drive neon tube displays for commercial establishments. The one used contains an oscillator and a step-up transformer, which together produce an Alternating Current of 9,000 volts at a frequency of 35,100 Hz (sometimes written as 35.1 kHz)."

The diodes then on the L1 circuit are rectifying the signal.  The two outputs show identical output AC voltage, as there is no voltage difference between them.  I had thought that the ground wire would be a centerpoint/transformer core ground, and there would be twice the voltage difference between the output wires, but this has proven to not be the case.

Don has stated that the L1 circuit drives the output L2 coil, and would operate at the 35.1kHz.  He indicated it might naturally operate at that frequency.  Well not unless it is tuned with capacitance adjustments, as the spark discharge will turn L1 into an AC circuit upon discharge.  Spark gap adjustment will be usable to change the frequency.  I assume it must match the NST and in one cycle, the capacitor is charged and the spark discharges?  Any insights appreciated.

It makes you wonder about the need for the spark gap.  Indeed Mark Belanger of Advanced Electronic on his youtube channel shows some operation of his Smith Generator work without a spark gap.

The single diodes shown then are not for "flyback" protection then, but for rectification.  As single diodes, the shown rectification scheme is a half-wave rectification.  If full-wave rectification is used, will it be more efficient?  I will look into this.

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sampojoe posted this 21 February 2018

Coil Design.  In my source document it says this:

"we need to pay special attention to the ratio of the wire lengths of the two coil windings as we want these two windings to resonate together. A rule of thumb followed by most Tesla Coil builders is to have the same weight of copper in the L1 and L2 coils, which means that the wire of the L1 coil is usually much thicker than the wire of the L2 coil. If the L1 coil is to be one quarter of the length of the L2 coil, then we would expect the cross-sectional area of the L1 coil to be four times that of the wire of the L2 coil and so the wire should have twice the diameter (as the area is proportional to the square of the radius, and the square of two is four)."

Looking at what I have laying around, I am going to use 6ga (4.1153mm dia) and 12ga (2.0525).  But sadly the 6 gauge is bare and the 12 gauge is insulated.  I believe you need L2 uninsulated to avoid attenuation at the RF freq.

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sampojoe posted this 27 February 2018

Found some bare 6ga and bare 12ga at Home depot for a few dollars.  Got a design for the L2 frame and L1 inner coil worked out.  Got some vinyl tubing that will be able to cover and insulate the L1 wire.  Got a design for the spark gap together and raw materials.  So time to start building.  Got most components up to the low voltage cap bank I want to use.  I figure I better be able to see some OU at the AC output without the final big investment of inverters and cap bank.

I have analyzed the question of the NST output diodes.  Since we have AC out at 35.7 kHz, I wondered if a full wave rectifier operation might work better.  I figured the spark gap alone was setting the frequency initially.  But what happens since I have established by Don Smith's words and my source document that the NST drives the circuit at its RF frequency, but some tuning of the circuit is still needed?  I will try to illustrate why.  I have drawn some signal curves I expect to see here.

Don Smith Tesla coil analysis

Looking at the NST voltage outputs, the solid curve represents the half wave rectification.  Lets just look at that first.  The NST in each increasing voltage cycle will pump charge into the C1, until the discharge voltage is reached for the spark gap.  In tuning the circuit, the C1 must be of the proper size and the NST run at the best voltage and the spark gap set at the right distance so that Vd is reached in the first 90 deg of the charge cycle.  Then the spark gap must discharge in the next 90 deg. of the cycle.  If a full wave rectified signal is used, represented by the first dashed curve on the positive side of the X-axis.  As the spark gap fires, current flows as the voltage drops  possibly to zero, as the plasma in the spark will lower the reisistance.  If there is the full wave rectification the continued voltage application may prolong the spark time, and it may continue over into the next charge cycle.  It could be almost continuous.  It is probably very important for it to go to zero and stay down for a good part of the quadrant.

Notice the sawtooth-like pattern that results coming out of the capacitor, with the spark having a typical decay pattern, I estimate.  It will be an oscillating DC signal, but the L2 coil will convert it to AC, moving the zero line up to the midpoint in the pattern, as it steps up the voltage and current hopefully.

I am thinking that Vd should be designed and must occur some time before Vd is reached on the downturn between 45 and 90 deg of the NST curver on top, first cycle.  If it does not discharge, the capacitor will have to be charged by a second pulse.  This will result in halving the frequency seen by L2.  I think power goes up with the square of the frequency so that of course is undesirable. 

If Vp is reached pretty close to the high voltage of the NST curve and the spark discharge is completed in the next 45 deg. of the cycle as the NST voltage goes to zero (spark must stop immediately at 0, clearing out plasma, and resistance jump back to Megaohms level), then use of full wave rectification might allow doubling the frequency!

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sampojoe posted this 01 March 2018

 check out www.jovion.com .   They are working on a Casimir effect endless battery discussed by sarah westall here  

.   This sounds a lot like what Don Smith alluded to in his later videos.

Chris posted this 04 March 2018

 

@All following - I want to express importance in my statement:

Don Smith was 100% correct in everything he told you in his videos! Everything I can personally attest to being correct!

 

From time to time he may not have been clear, but always he clarifies, perhaps in another video. If one takes the time to take and note important bits of information, or quotes there are many critical very important Quotes:

 

The Magnetic System that is driving it, it has to be equal and opposite, that's your Lenz's Law, equal and opposite. So that means that, your, one of those is your Magnetic Field and the other is your Electrical Field. And the Magnetic Field is Amps.

Don Smith - /watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No&t=19m1s

 

The Ratio is 1: 5, so not only do you get the L1 and L2 gain you get 5 times that. ... Well ah, the L1 wire should be an even division of the what ever the length of L2 is. That way they're able to talk to each other, the Frequency, if you worry about the frequency, don't worry about that, just build the thing so it looks nice, and ah make ah, an even division, even multiple or even division of the lengths or the wire that you want to talk to each other, and they will be talking to each other!

Don Smith - /watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No?t=20m5s 

 

Q: The device right beside the caps, is that a spark arrester? PB: The device right beside the caps... A: Ah, a lot of your electronic devices have things which control the voltage, you know like spark gaps, that is a radio frequency spark gap, its used for lightning arresters on computers and things that are sensitive to Voltage so if Lightning hits, anything over a certain amount will go to ground, so that's the ground post on that high voltage thing there (Neon Tube Transformer), so im, ah, grounding it back into itself.  When its running, that flashes, you see the flashes in it, ah, all the time.

Don Smith - /watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No&t=30m41s

 

That wont make sense to anyone who thinks like a electrical system you have to think in terms of Magnetic Flux, because if you're using Electrical Flux everything is dying a heat death, and you loose the energy almost immediately, in Electrical Flux, but in Magnetic Flux you can make as many copies of the original as you want without  depleting the original at all. So if you're chasing Electrical Flux you're chasing the wrong rabbit, you need to be chasing the Magnetic Resonance Flux!

Don Smith - /watch?v=tASY07r9AD0&t=18m10s

 

In a closed system, and you're boxed in Ohms law works, but if get over, and that's on he electrical side, but when you move over onto the counter part of it, the Magnetic side, none of those laws apply. Its a whole different system and most of the critical information is missing, intentionally. So, In effect what you have, on the Magnetic side, you can make as many copies as you want without depleting the source.

Don Smith - /watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No&t=44m07s

 

The Generator is not generating energy at all, its actually disturbing the ambient background, and its collecting the energy out of it. Now all of these devices are doing the same thing except they are doing it with radio type devices.

Don Smith - /watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No&t=35m43s

 

This is your L2 system, but its a double one, setup so that the Amps and Volts and everything are in there in the proper order.  This one I built in 1994.

Don Smith - /watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No&t=26m34s

 

There is Logic here, Don Smith gives you 100% correct information! I can attest to all this being true and correct from my work! 

   Chris

Chris posted this 04 March 2018

I have asked the question before:

 

Why does Don use Diodes on the Output?

 

We know, for sure, the Input is a LC Resonant Spark Gap configuration, almost exactly like Nikola Tesla showed us 100 odd years ago:

 

 

Where, the 3 turn coil shown above is Dons L1 Coil which is 4 turns, and Don's Caps, 2 x 0.1 in parallel, is the Capacitor shown above, and the High voltage Neon Tube Transformer is the Step up transformer shown above.

Don's Secondary is completely different as we already know. Don's L2 Coil, as I have pointed out, is as described:

This is your L2 system, but its a double one, setup so that the Amps and Volts and everything are in there in the proper order.  This one I built in 1994.

Don Smith - /watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No&t=26m34s

   Chris

Jagau posted this 05 March 2018

Hi Sampojoe,

great works i follow you with interest, i am working on same Don Smith project as you.

Very interesting. I would like to share with you my progress.

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Jagau posted this 06 March 2018

As Chris said it is better to understand with small voltages and increase thereafter to better understand how it works. I begin to understand what is happening in this little coil that is called L1.

I built L1 and with a calculator found the ideal capacitor for L1 to be resonant. Without using a spark gap, connect my function generator to this LC combination. I easily found the resonance frequency of my LC tank and with the help of my oscilloscope I could verify the accuracy of the result.

We all know that the parallel LC tank is like an open switch when we reach the resonance frequency. By placing a small lamp in series and with my function generator actually visualize that the filament of the small lamp was barely visible. There is a bit of loss in the cables and the extensions and rarely reaches perfection.

These are my first observations, soon afterwards.

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Chris posted this 06 March 2018

Jagau, this is excellent advice!

Be safe, work with small Voltages first, study very simple Coil Interactions, Currents especially, Voltages will come later. Study, Current is the Magnetic Field, one is analogous to the other, and see what Don Smith was saying:

So if you're chasing Electrical Flux you're chasing the wrong rabbit, you need to be chasing the Magnetic Resonance Flux!

See above Quotes.

This exact same principle is seen in The Mr Preva Experiment, the reason I have pushed this experiment so strongly. Once one properly understands this experiment, one is very close to the next step: I = V / R - Ohms Law is very real and accurate for Electrical Currents and Voltage, and making this connection is the next step! 

Don Smith used Diodes, on his output and also on his Input. The Diodes serve multiple purposes!

  • Protection.
  • Half Wave Rectification - ( Important to understand ).
  • Timing of Half Wave Rectification .

Half Wave Rectification:

You need from Tesla only one half wave. Otherwise Tesla will take what she gave, back !!!

Ruslan Kulabuhov - Quote

 

Your Input Magnetic Field must not be subject to Lenz's Law Criteria, thus Timing. "What goes Up, must come Down"

Timing is something I saw many years ago, but it did take me some time to understand... There are a lot of pit falls or traps for people, its only dedication that gives the steps to climb from these traps. Most would give up.

Two methods I know of to Time a System:

  • DC Switching.
  • AC 1/4 Wave Resonance - This I still find Tricky!

DC Switching is extremely easy, small $14 Microcontrollers can be extremely powerful when working with DC Switching techniques. I have already shown some of my work here: Reliable and Flexible Switching System a continuation of a thread I started, April 25, 2014, Reliable and Flexible Switching System

AC is a little trickier, theory here is a little vaguer and many would argue its validity. By using 1/4 Wavelength's or similar, its possible to bring on Magnetic Resonance in the Output Coils without the input being affected, simply this is a timed response from the drawing of Current at 1/4 Wavelength. 

Don Smith and many others point out the Importance of 1/4 Wavelength's.

To all reading, we here at AboveUnity.com, are only steps away from changing the world forever, but we must do it together, or like history has shown, it will never happen!

I urge you, create your own Thread in the Replication Section, by replicating and showing your progress, and thus your understanding of these very important interactions, we can see when the right time is to move to the next step!

   Chris

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sampojoe posted this 07 March 2018

Thank you Jagu and Chris, I guess I will first try to get the reactance tuned to a set of coils I build using an o-scope as Jagu has suggested, but I may be ignoring a quarter wave antenna approach.  Here I have some analysis.

I have a question about the quarter wave antennas used by the Don Smith Generator. Given that the frequency of the operation is 35.1kHz, the period is 28.49 microseconds (us). So in that time, the signal will travel 2135.3m, and q quarter wavelength is 533.8m.

 

  1. How can any antenna or coil on a Don Smith generator be said to be a quarter wave, using 10 turns on L1, coming in at about 6.8' on a 2.5” diameter form and use an NST at 35.1kHz?


    Focusing on the quarter wave verbiage, here is a statement on p19 from my source document:

    “A rule of thumb followed by most Tesla Coil builders is to have the same weight of copper in the L1 and L2 coils, which means that the wire of the L1 coil is usually much thicker than the wire of the L2 coil. If the L1 coil is to be one quarter of the length of the L2 coil, then we would expect the cross-sectional area of the L1 coil to be four times that of the wire of the L2 coil and so the wire should have twice the diameter (as the area is proportional to the square of the radius, and the square of two is four).”

  2. The PJ Kelly book posted by idea1man is a digitized version of Chris' only Don Smith book that he is known to have written, Resonant Energy Systems. So it is wonderfully searchable by key words. Several areas have great details of coil construction. But nowhere can it be found a good description of a Tesla coil that contains the partnered output coil description. Hopefully this is the missing secret sauce deliberately left out. But returning to the concept of how to build a quarter wave device, on page 44, a quarter wave length calculation is presented under the section “AIR CORE INDUCTION COIL BUILDERS GUIDE”:

    “To obtain the wire length (in feet) use the following: If using one quarter wave length divide 247 by the desired frequency (megahertz range is desirable).”

    Since the NST is at .0351 MHz, this calculation yields 7037' wave length. Calculating by hand yielded 7004 ft, which is within my rounding errors and Don's thumbnail calculation.  And thus a quarter wave length is about 1760' At a 4:1 ratio approximate, L2 would be some 7037' long, back up to one wavelength. These are out of the question to build for me now with the heavy gauges. So some compromises will be tried in the coil design, i.e. using the 10' size Don ascribed to the coil L1.  I would have to switch to some fine wire coil structures. 

There seems to be a glaring discrepancy between Don's rhetoric in his videos showing his demo models using the NST and his calculations in his book for coil construction around RF antenna theory (See Chris' video explaining quarter antennas earlier in this thread) I would like to see this style generator working in one of his conference videos again. If someone knows where to look, I would appreciate a point to it. If a close-up camera shot of a working model is available, something can be learned. I do believe the close-up pictures we have used in this thread may be just non-working concept models he was using, so as not to “give away the shop” entirely. However, he has stated such a unit could deliver 160 kilowatts! Who among us would not be happy at just one or 3 Kilowatts? So I assume a non-quarter-wave antenna would just suffer attenuation and signal loss. Not being an RF engineer, I have no idea how much. In circuitry analysis, any wire length greater than 1/10 of a wavelength should be considered a transmitter. As Don's model seems to show about 10 turns for L1, we are shorter than that even, but I think it will transmit something significant inserted inside L2. At this point I am leaning toward building something like as shown in the pictures around the look of a 3” Barker & Williamson off-the-shelf coil, as Don seems to favor that style of coil, and see where we are at that point, sticking to the requirement that L2 must be 4 times longer than L1, but at the same weight, which is why I have selected 6ga wire for L1 and 12ga wire for L2. Any other insights and comments appreciated.

PS Chris, should we be moved to your Replications page?

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sampojoe posted this 07 March 2018

Meanwhile I have built a spark gap.  

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XsFMNk870LQ/WqAIDXIkvhI/AAAAAAAAAGI/7nkivzxNXlQ73msH-cuA_IRqeEv0XE0VwCLcBGAs/s640/MySparkGap.png

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Chris posted this 07 March 2018

PS Chris, should we be moved to your Replications page?

Hi Sampojoe - Please, if you could. I would like to keep things in their place. Makes browsing for specific topics easier. However, discussion can continue here if you like?

The 1/4 Wavelength topic is a tricky topic. I have much information here on this forum about Wave Theory. I also know some EE's that state Wave Theory is incomplete!

The way I think of it is as so, some will say I am wrong:

If we apply a Voltage changing over time, or a frequency, to a Coil, we are applying a Current, thus a Pressure that varies in Time also. This Pressure is the Increasing and Decreasing Magnetic Field, which is an Electromagnetic Wave. The Transfer, or Transmitting of this Electromagnetic Wave is subject to the very same already shown to work principles as an Antenna. Now comes the question, "So Transformers are subject to Antenna Theory" - Yes is the answer. We already know this is true for RF Transformers.

We use 1/4 wave Impedance Transformers and there are calculations that can calculate the values.

1/2 - One Half Wave is the optimum Length for transfer of Energy, not 1/4, but Grounding for Antenna is used to get the other 1/4, so 1/4 + 1/4 = 1/2 or 0.25 + 0.25 = 0.5, but there is something we need to think about:

Each one of the Partnered Output Coils, if each one is 1/4 Wave length, or 0.25 the Wavelength and we have two, partnered Coils, then we have 1/4 + 1/4 = 1/2 or 0.25 + 0.25 = 0.5 which is 1/2, One Half Wavelength.

 

Re Wire Gauges:

Wire Gauges are important, basically the Wire Gauge determines the Resistance of the Wire. However, the rules you outlined: "A rule of thumb followed by most Tesla Coil builders is to have the same weight of copper in the L1 and L2 coils" - might be something to be cautious of. Floyd Sweet did not show this rule: 48 Turns #28 to 240 Turns #20...

I would not use this "Rule of Thumb" to determine your experiments just yet. Put it in the book to investigate later.

 

I got a good shot of Don's small cap:

 

Sampojoe, regarding your statement:

So it is wonderfully searchable by key words. Several areas have great details of coil construction. But nowhere can it be found a good description of a Tesla coil that contains the partnered output coil description. Hopefully this is the missing secret sauce deliberately left out.

 

I think if you look close enough, you will see this in all Don's devices, in fact, 9 out of 10 Devices everywhere! Don said:

This is your L2 system, but its a double one, setup so that the Amps and Volts and everything are in there in the proper order.  This one I built in 1994.

Don Smith - /watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No&t=26m34s

 

 

 

Using the Right Hand Grip Rule, and also following the Output Diode Direction vs the Coils Directions surely speak volumes to most people. Many other references to hard data also exist in this thread. I urge everyone, learn first with The Mr Preva Experiment.

So I think, once enough understanding of these Coils is obtained, one will be able to see a whole new world open up right in front of them, endless world changing possibilities!

   Chris

Chris posted this 08 March 2018

I started to write a post a few days ago, but I decided it wasn't time yet... Perhaps I was wrong.

I asked the question:

Why does Don Separate Voltage and Amps?

 

There is a very good reason he does, and it is actually correct to do so!

We, Science has a tendency to relate Voltage with Amperes and Amperes with Voltage, one is hand in hand with the other. This way of thinking is wrong. Ohms Law tells us this!

A Voltage gives rise to a Current, in other words, Once a Voltage, or E.M.F, has been Induced, this Voltage gives rise to the potential for a Current to flow, this Current can be predicted via Ohms Law: I = V / R

However, the E.M.F, or Voltage can exist with out any Current Flow what so ever! 

A Battery, the Terminals can be measured to have a particular Voltage, and only when Loaded does a Current Flow, switch off the Load, and the Current no longer Flows! 

So, I strongly urge all following, a Voltage, the Terminal Voltages at the Ends of the Coil is the E.M.F - A process that is considered the Free Transformation in a Transformer - Once this Voltage is obtained, the Current can be predicted by Ohms Law: I = V / R

Step the voltage up to infinity, the Current goes up to infinity! I hope you can see my Point!!!

   Chris

Chris posted this 08 March 2018

So you all know, and I have said it before, Don Smith information is a Vault of Gold!

Please, spend some time, cross reference what I have said to what Don has said!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0tu2-2OJCrmbdyGYzui6jw/videos

This is such important information!

   Chris

sampojoe posted this 11 March 2018

As I have bothered everyone with my Tesla style DC asymmetric motor build, I was working on, I wanted give everyone some of my test results.  I built it on a Baldor frame and still have an untouched Edison style production ~1HP electric motor to compare it with.  These motors are industrial strength and run assembly lines and other heavy machinery, and operate on 60-90vdc as high amperage.  So I cobbled together two car batteries for 24v and compared rpm.  The production motor ran at a meager ~400rpm while my asymmetric built motor ran at more than triple the rpm coming in at about 1400.  Now I guess I need to build an electric car of some sort around it ;-)

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Jagau posted this 11 March 2018

Hi Sampojoe

Sorry, I could not answer you these days. About your question

I have a question about the quarter wave antennas used by the Don Smith Generator. Given that the frequency of the operation is 35.1kHz, the period is 28.49 microseconds (us). So in that time, the signal will travel 2135.3m, and q quarter wavelength is 533.8m.

 

 

I do not understand why all those who want to don smith system uses the frequency of the NST to do their coil, yet he says it in several places in his 40 page book I quote it to you at the moment (IN MY SYSTEM WORKING TO 220 MHZ )

Everyone want to make a L1 at 35.1khz, unfeasible!

In the section of Replication I will do an experiment with you if you are interested and you will be surprised of the result, I need a little time to explain it, I am not a good teacher but I'm going try.

jagau

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Jagau posted this 12 March 2018

Dowload the Patrick J. Kelly book see page 42 and page 43

About earth electrical system 2 and my 220 mhz system

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Jagau posted this 13 March 2018

I found this interesting article about,

Natural electric field of the Earth

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Natural_electric_field_of_the_Earth

I quote them;

The surface of the Earth is negatively charged, carrying 500,000 Coulombs (C) of electric charge (500 kC), and is at 300,000 volts (V), 300 kV, relative to the positively charged ionosphere. 

There is a constant flow of electricity, at around 1350 amperes (A) [approximately 1100 A, and resistance of the Earth's atmosphere is around 220 Ohms. 

This gives a power of around 400 megawatts (MW). There is no feasible means to harvest this power, which in any case averages a mere 0.8 microwatts per square metre of the earth's surface (compare solar radiation which is one billion times as large).

The charge is maintained by the stream of charged particles from the Sun. This process affects the ionosphere, as well as the troposphere, possibly causing thunderstorms. The electrical energy stored in the Earth's atmosphere is around 150 gigajoules (GJ). The Earth-ionosphere system acts as a giant capacitor, of capacity 1.8 Farads. The Earth's surface carries around -1 nC of electric charge per square meter.

 And what NASA sapceflight.com forum think  about that :  https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24963.0

 In fact what it means is that Mr. Don L. Smith is telling the truth and he is very credible.

sampojoe posted this 15 March 2018

Hi Sampojoe

Sorry, I could not answer you these days. About your question

I have a question about the quarter wave antennas used by the Don Smith Generator. Given that the frequency of the operation is 35.1kHz, the period is 28.49 microseconds (us). So in that time, the signal will travel 2135.3m, and q quarter wavelength is 533.8m.

 

 

"I do not understand why all those who want to don smith system uses the frequency of the NST to do their coil, yet he says it in several places in his 40 page book I quote it to you at the moment (IN MY SYSTEM WORKING TO 220 MHZ )"

 

jagau

 

Well many videos of Don have him quite clearly talking about using an NST, and quite definitely stating you can get 160Kw out it.  Dummyload has PM's me and said Don said to go ahead and just build it and the NST frequency would drive it.  It may be easier to build it out at this point just to see.  Is it all in the partnered output coil arrangement or not?  That could amplify the current whether or not its a quarter-wave antenna, as we know induction will occur between the coils.  It is arguable that a quarter wave antenna would have better  performance, but Don's COP's are truly mind-boggling.  So Jagau, where do we get these 220MHz oscillators?  If we build that circuit, I am afraid that would take me a few months more.  But if you have a circuit handy, I am interested.  I think I can get to an NST demo in a matter of weeks.  At Don's insistence of using an NST in his videos, I could only assume you can make a compromise here and forego the use of a quarterwave antenna.  If you can get a spark gap to work with full-wave rectification, we could operate 70.2KHz, but still a far cry from 220MHz.  But the number of turns in L1 and L2 in the videos and the pictures on this thread would seem to fit the MHz range.  Is that microwave?

Jagau posted this 15 March 2018

Hi sampojoe

You're absolutely right, for the final system of Don Smith we have to use a NST and a spark gap. In my post I just said that I used a different approach using lower AC voltage and trying to understand all the subtleties of the circuit with different frequencies before using an NST and a spark gap.

In the low voltage circuit that I am trying to experiment the final output frequency of L2 is not yet decided and in my case I experiment. However Don Smith guides us in these videos and documents without telling us exactly how to do it. Many have tried to do the D.S. circuit without succeeding and have discouraged other experimenters because they failed to do so.

Fortunately Chris has made us a great site to exchange our ideas and concept and I think that's the purpose of this thread, thank you Chris.

The dipole L2 is at half wavelength and the primary side which is the quarter-wave of L2 / 4 = L1 is inserted inside L2. We use the same concept. What is different is I do not use, at least for the moment, a NST and a spark gap since the voltage is too low to make a spark in the gap.

I believe that Don telling us that his system operates in the 220 mhz is true, but the subtlety is that it operates at a much lower harmonic frequency, this is my opinion it is not necessarily the truth. In search mode everything is possible. Between 30 mhz and 300 mhz are the frequencies VHF, between 3khz and 30 MHZ are the frequencies LF, MF and HF. You can find this in the charters of the frequency spectrum. Microwave are in the same range as you microwave on your home at 2445 mhz or 2.445 gigahertz.

I hope to continue to exchange with you and reach the final goal

sampojoe posted this 20 March 2018

Calculating the L1 coil inductance of Don Smith's Early Device

Using my college text to calculate the resonant values in an RLC circuit, (Foundations of Electromagnetic Theory), the formula is:

ω2=1/LC

 

Notice that Resistance is not present in the formula. However it is prominent in figuring Q value of a circuit. The lower the resistance of an RLC circuit, the higher the Q value and the sharper the resonance peak. This may be a reason that Don seems to use heavy wire on L1.

 

In the photographs of this generator, the capacitance used is clearly on display, and we know the frequency of the NST, so that the inductance of the coil may be solved for.

 

L=1/C ω2

 

 

Units are Henrys and Farads. For coil L1 the inductance of Don's display model calculated from this formula is 4 mH.

 

So now we must reverse engineer what a coil of this inductance looks like. I have 2 different formulas, one from Don's book, Resonant Energy Systems, and another from Navy Bupers manual, Basic Electricity.

 

 

The formula on the last page of Resonant Energy Systems is:

 

L = d2n2/ (18d + 40l)

 

where l, coil length and d, diameter, are in inches, and n is the number of turns. Don seems to indicate in a number of videos that standard PVC pipes are used for forming L1 and L2, and so the diameter of a L1 is estimated at 2.9” and length at 6”. This formula for turns calculates at

 

n = 376

The Basic Electricity formula includes Permeability μ for Non-Air Core Coils. Permeability can be values even higher than 1000, with ferromagnetic cores concentrating the lines of force. Linear dimensions are in cm and inductance in Henrys.

 

L=.4πN2μA x 10-8

l

Assuming that substituting 1 for permeability is acceptable for an air core, and solving for number of turns,

 

N = 340

 

Results are comparable. You can play with coil length as you can see with thick wire that Don seems to use, it looks impossible to get this amount of turns in such a short coil. There seems to be a big discrepancy.  I intend to research my college texts for additional formulations, but the question of resonance in something approaching the presented pictures of the Smith Generator makes me wonder what the next step is.  Higher harmonics?

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Jagau posted this 21 March 2018

Hi Bob

Indeed a good grounding makes all the difference. I'm not talking about the ground all we have in our home power outle tbut from an 8 foot ground rod inserted into the ground in the back yard, this makes the difference.

In recent days I have not done much forums, I have successfully realized the experience of Dr. Konstantin Meyl that strangely resembles that of Don Smith and Tesla Magnifying Transmitter.

I reached with this experience more at the ouput than at the input, the most ably in this experience is thatit can be done in low voltage to study the smith donation system without burning your fingers and achieve a very interesting goal.

Indeed a good grounding has made all the difference, proof to support!

Jack

 

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Jagau posted this 22 March 2018

HI

20 years later 2 universities (from italy and russia) have redone the Meyl experience, with components that can be easily found. It is quite simple to realize and very informative, it is very surprising to see the two leds connected antiparallel on and to be able to check the gains in current and voltage.

If you want to build it see attached file.

Jack

Attached Files

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sampojoe posted this 22 March 2018

So I am going to take that tuning a Don Smith circuit means setting the capacitance in conjunction with the coil inductance to get sufficient charge on the circuit in one pulse of half-rectified NST output such that a sparkgap fires.  Perhaps I will try to match a quarterwave length of a 10th order harmonic of 35.1Hz.  This falls within the physical layout of the system he has shown so many times.  And also the number of turns on L1 I will approximate to the pictures and look into the benefit of introducing a ferrite core.  And as Don states, the 4:1 ratio of length for L1:L2 provides an almost automatic resonance?  It seems he just threw on a certain capacitor of .5uF and it gave him the needed difference to get some resnonance?  dummyload has informed me that on one video of the  "Donald L Smith Inventors Weekend 2001" at about 20m, Don says something like just make it "look nice" and it will work... (If you use a real tesla coil with a partnered output coil/bifilar pancake coil?)

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sampojoe posted this 26 March 2018

Part of Chris's Post

Re Wire Gauges:

Wire Gauges are important, basically the Wire Gauge determines the Resistance of the Wire. However, the rules you outlined: "A rule of thumb followed by most Tesla Coil builders is to have the same weight of copper in the L1 and L2 coils" - might be something to be cautious of. Floyd Sweet did not show this rule: 48 Turns #28 to 240 Turns #20...

-------------------------------------------------------------------

If I try to use a harmonic to create some resonance, then the quarter wave antenna approach nay also be applied.  Using 6ga - 12ga combo means one wire is almost exactly half the diameter of the other.  if the coils are the same actual weight, then, by cross-sectional area calculations, the length of L2 will be 4 times longer, but I think I will just measure it rather then weighing it! ;-)  Of course Don always talks about 4:1 will automatically "tune" the L2 antenna/coil.

 

 

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sampojoe posted this 29 March 2018

My L1 and L2 construction details

For L1, it looks like the 10th harmonic has a quarter wavelength of 6.8'.  So at about a diameter of 2.75", I calculate I need a coil with 9.5 turns.  Using 6ga wire.  So I will need to build L2 out to 2 halves at 13.68' each.  Each L2 half coil will be ~15 turns at a 3.5" diameter, using 12ga wire.  If I use a ferrite core in L1 with a permeability of just 400, I think I can get resonance there, as calculated in a previous post! (using the Basic Electricity formula however)  Resonance in L2 seems to be another story.  But since the ferrite core would occupy a smaller cross-sectional area for L2, it would have a smaller permeability.  That is what is needed, but L2 still only needs a permeability around 100 for resonance there.  OOPS  All calculations are using 35.1 kHz.  Should I be using the 10th harmonic?  35.94 MHz...  Well I'm punting...

Marathonman posted this 29 March 2018

 

I don't want to bother everyone's work here but i found this circuit from Tesla in an old book that could be a substitute for the NST everyone is looking for. look at the frequency change after the spark gap, it went from 60 hz to 100,000 hz.

just a thought.

Marathonman

Attached Files

sampojoe posted this 07 April 2018

Hi Mman, wow seems like even 60cps will do a good job in my interpretation if I am correct.  So lets see, energy goes up with the square of the frequency, so the higher the better?  And double wow, It eliminates the need for the NST, So just plug it into 110v wall socket from the power company and get ?? COP return on the power company.  I like the simplicity.

 

sampojoe posted this 07 April 2018

L1 Coil Redesign Thoughts

Using the design features of my previous post, the L1 coil would have 9.5 turns, using a 10th harmonic wavelength. With my wire coming in at about .25” thick with insulation, my coil length would be only 2.5” long. This seems kind of smallish upon examination of the pictures we have. It seems Don's L1 coil would be closer to 5” or 6”. If I look at the wavelength of the 9th harmonic, my L1 would be about 5” long at 19 turns. L2 construction would become more tedious then having to be 2 halves at about 27' of wire each, and 28.75 turns each. Each half would be 7.5” long with .25' spacing. Oh well gotta bite the bullet. I cut some wire, and hate to buy for the total length over, so I may be welding it back together.  Using harmonics may not even matter, it might make the difference, or somewhere in between.  So using a few brain cycles over it and a little extra copper seems like I should make the investment.  This would seem to bring L2 into the right size also.  Incidentally, upon trying to count the turns on Don's L2 it comes at 19 turns per half.   Overall Don's is smaller.  I have decided to make my calculations for C and L revolve initially around resonance calculations for 35.1 kHz of the NST as opposed to the 9th or 10th harmonic frequency. 

 

Marathonman posted this 07 April 2018

AS Tesla was the master in his domain i would say yes as the frequency at 100,000 hz  could not be better in this case. this connected to the L1 would achieve the oyster one is seeking.

 

Marathonman

Enjoykin2118 posted this 09 April 2018

 Attached

Tesla The_True_Wireless

Tesla Effects of Statics on Wireless Transmission

 

ps: If Tesla secondary is in partnered configuration or not,it must be tuned to parallel resonance point, Tuning via additional capacitors (asymmetric types used by Tesla ), at top and bottom of secondary , introduce additional phase shifts in each bransh, to achieve the critical frequency, at which Magnetic HZ field (scalar wave) was generated. 2 Phase shifts are in fact 2 timings, for each half of partnered secondary, Study HZ antennas design how to at this link: http://www.eh-antenna.com

Regards

Enjoykin

Attached Files

Marathonman posted this 09 April 2018

Thanks for the link.

Are you referring to a second secondary added to the circuit above in a partnered output configuration?

Marathonman

Enjoykin2118 posted this 09 April 2018

Yes.

Regards

Enjoykin

 

Enjoykin2118 posted this 09 April 2018

Magnetic HZ field (scalar wave) in action. Old excellent Tesla technology.

 

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sampojoe posted this 11 April 2018

My L1 Coil Construction

Here is my L1 coil holder beside my 6ga bare wire on which I am slipping vinyl tubing for insulation.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zDKh8ipKUb0/Ws5e8bHlgoI/AAAAAAAAAIw/luQ4Zi3DyQsuCgaN090i0Pr6JJujs9HGQCLcBGAs/s640/IMG_2002.JPG

Drilling an exit port at the bottom of the black form and cutting a starting slot at the top starts the L1 wind operation, CW from the top.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5-QRmvAtYRA/Ws5fB0cDFvI/AAAAAAAAAI0/tuXT6R_2_NAkcZ8eWiWJDtEKqsa7m4weACLcBGAs/s640/IMG_2003.JPG

Inside L1 coil with one wrap complete

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--_R8GpRhslU/Ws5fFvdBkyI/AAAAAAAAAI4/GbhdZehGM9sWEsGGZnRnoTTDHu1XN7-MACLcBGAs/s640/IMG_2004.JPG

L1 wrap half complete

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0b2BqK5VhwM/Ws5fMs4FdpI/AAAAAAAAAI8/rvm3GDBN79IV8jO9l-RUYC9ofCUCp4rjQCLcBGAs/s640/IMG_2005.JPG

L1 coil 19 turns, needs clamp

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pDO9hYKgr4U/Ws5gx_I2M2I/AAAAAAAAAJQ/-dhT6xr6bi4R1y4mP5uMJnmQQtwDYaXSQCLcBGAs/s640/IMG_2010.JPG

 

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Enjoykin2118 posted this 13 April 2018

Tesla had always used one turn primary coil. See the picture.

Massive A3 or A4 copper plate (or bigger) is enough for exciting the secondary coil with in series connected extra coil. Both secondaries were connected in partnered configuration CW-CCW or CCW-CW. On top of exciter coil should be assymetric capacitor with respect to the ground. Usually toroid or large metall ball.

What is the most important is very sharp mono-pulse/pure potential (compression wave or unidirectional pulse) so fast that there isnt running any conduction current through the primary. All electrons from outer orbits (same as inner) of copper crystal latticer must stand in place, or precise play the twist under the strike of pure potential impulse. Only the pure potential must be present in primary.To made this Tesla introduced Magnetic Quenching Spark Gap, with two powerful megnets to quench the arc between two gap electrodes. This Tesla way is probably the best way to achive longitudinal induction in partnered secondary. Minimum potentional amplitude shouldnt be less than 7kV. This was experimentaly estimated by Edwin Gray.

Tesla worked with 12MV potentials in primary.

Regards

Enjoykin 

sampojoe posted this 13 April 2018

Hey Enjoy, I would need the Tesla Patent to begin to understand this diagram.  Maybe they are in your attached Tesla articles, which of course, look very interesting.  Thank you for those.  As of now, I am just trying to reverse engineer Don's generator, and I am estimating the L1 design at this point, and just trying to get some harmonic resonance at this point...  I don't have any more details on Don's design right now.  It seems Partnered output coil pairs can have many different configurations depending on the desired design goal.  I am optimistic that energy can be harvested in a variety of voltages and frequencies, even if not perfectly tuned.

sampojoe posted this 18 April 2018

L1 Circuit Assembled and First test

Here is my L1 coil holder beside my 6ga bare wire on which I am slipping vinyl tubing for insulation.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_7I2c5A01M8/WtdTKDWKX0I/AAAAAAAAAJ4/gvjhU9UMi1cgEn_NveuIiQ2k1PKgfZ7xACLcBGAs/s640/L1CircuitAssembled.JPG

My VOM only can take 600v.  When I crank the variac up to 10vac input to the NST, I get 376~vac out of the NST.  As I cranked up to about 25v, I started getting some sparks at relatively slow rate of a few cps.  As I cranked up the voltage to about 40v on the variac, something went, and the sparking stopped.   The HV rectifiers don't seem to respond to normal diode testing, as I have spares, but I suspect they went.  They are HVM12 12kv 350ma microwave oven rectifiers, so they should not have been affected, (except for high flyback voltages?)

HVM12 rectifiters

The NST is still working.

 

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sampojoe posted this 18 April 2018

Ordered some higher voltage rectifiers, 20KV.

2CL20KV 30mA High Voltage Diode Rectifier HF Tesla Coil

 xEAAOSwmWVasOUo">2CL20KV 30mA High Voltage Diode Rectifier for HF Tesla Coil from ebay

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Marathonman posted this 19 April 2018

Sampojo;

 Do you think the Diodes frequency response was slower than the frequency of the NST and that's why they fried.

Just a thought. MOT diodes don't have to be very fast in their intended usage.

Marathonman

sampojoe posted this 19 April 2018

All I know is they quit after a few minutes as I increased the voltage, and did have a very slow spark rate, which could be due to low voltages taking longer to charge the cap.  I can only estimate I was about 30% full power, so maybe doing a couple thousand volts at least.  I thought that maybe the circuit might have flyback voltages that exceeded their design, but I can see frequency might be a consideration.  But Microwaves do operate at near gigahertz range come to think of it, and I may have seen where they go up to 2 gig.  I am short of high voltage test equipment, and looking for some probes.

Marathonman posted this 20 April 2018

There is no diodes on the magnetron side because of the high RF signal.  they are at the input side which is high voltage low signal. the frequency of the signal before would be that of the country you live in.

the signal then gets bounced around the magnetron which increases the signal through the roof so yes they could of fried as their response time is to slow. your new ones should do fine.

at least this is my understanding.

Marathonman

sampojoe posted this 23 April 2018

I replaced the microwave diodes with new of the same.  And I suspect that the circuit is fading at the 5000v limit of the capacitor, but I am getting a random but slow spark at lower voltages, I estimate around 3-4000v.  I varied the spark gap to nearly touching without the expected result of faster sparking.   It kept to a sometimes a fast spark where I hear a chatter around 5-10  cps, but lasting only 1-2 seconds,  or just a longer spark of about .5 s every few seconds.  I think the NST has a ground fault interrupter which restores itself at the slow rate.  But when it is sparking, I suspect by the chatter I hear in single spark, it is around 10-20 cps.  Therefore this circuit does not seem likely to run at the 35.1 kHz.  Due to the voltages I am leary of putting a scope or meter on it.  I would be glad to run a simple HV coil at just the 60 cps home cycle power at this point.  The charge rate of that capacitor is the controlling factor I think.  I will have to look at the NST circuitry to see if there is some ground fault component that can be disabled.  It could be that all Don got from the NST was the HV and not the frequency.

Marathonman posted this 23 April 2018

From my experience and research of the smith device the GF component was the cause of a lot of problems and should be avoided. introducing a spark gap adds basically all the frequencies that is why the circuit i posted has such a high frequency of 100,000 hz and no GF circuit to tend to. i think you can tune it to what ever frequency you want. with luck you can disable it.

Marathonman

anothercat posted this 24 April 2018

Quick question for everyone...Did anyone studied a bit Don's nomograph (example of it here) ? How about you have 2 different LC circuits who are connected together and who are resonant to the same frequency.

As an example, let take 100Khz as the resonant frequency (like shown here)
Using Don's nomograph you would have:

1) As the input, the first LC circuit (connected in parallel - "The total impedance of a parallel LC circuit approaches infinity as the power supply frequency approaches resonance") with high inductance, low capacitance and high resistance. 

2) As the output, the second LC circuit (connected in serie - "The total impedance of a serie LC circuit approaches zero as the power supply frequency approaches resonance") with low inductance, high capacitance and low resistance.

 

Would you end up with more than what you put in? I know you will probably tell me to try it. I ask first because I'm sure that some of you here are more advanced than me regarding playing with resonant tank circuit. I would like to have your views on this.

Thanks

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Chris posted this 24 April 2018

Hey Anothercat - Energy Gain, it is unlikely, but also still possible.

I think you will find that what you describe is very close to The MrPreva Experiment.

Hi Q LC Tank Circuits are subject to Resistance no matter what, there are still losses. Without a method of "Generating" Energy to replace your Losses and some excess to measure a gain, then one is only Playing with an efficient LC Tank Circuit or in this case two efficient LC Tank Circuits.

With the correct phasing, one could achieve an Energy gain! This could be very tricky, very hard to achieve without the right hardware.

A Door exists, and it is the ability to increase the Rate at which Electrons Flow. Opening the Door a little will begin to approach Unity, opening the Door more will bring the machine Above unity, the Door is the Magnetic Field and Accelerating Electrons - Once people set this as their goal then we will see successes like never before!

Bucking Coils are the method, and understanding how is the Key!

   Chris

 

P.S: There is an experiment I wish I could share with you, but it is not mine to share, I am sorry.

sampojoe posted this 27 April 2018

From my experience and research of the smith device the GF component was the cause of a lot of problems and should be avoided. introducing a spark gap adds basically all the frequencies that is why the circuit i posted has such a high frequency of 100,000 hz and no GF circuit to tend to. i think you can tune it to what ever frequency you want. with luck you can disable it.

Marathonman

Ah I see now, I didn't notice the freq change on the other side of the spark gap in what you posted.  I can get at a few wires in the NST to perhaps disable the GFI and a couple IRF640 transistors are accessible.  But I am examining a wall dimmer/ignition coil setup. I will probably not have success if there is an oscillator circuit at 35khz in there as I have been led to believe.  The circuitry side potting compound is silicon based, and it may be remotely possible to remove it.  The question is  I have never heard Don talk about this problem with NSTs in his videos.  He clearly is showing the more modern "safer" potted style instead of the "Franceformer" models, which do not seem to have any oscillator circuitry.  I would have to hold judgement and assume that models 20 years ago did not have GFCI (or SGFP) protection.   If I can successfully disable it, that might make it a first in Youtube hisrory!  I think if I can even salvage a few wires, I can possibly use it as just a simple (and safely potted) transformer then.

Here is a question for you, Mman.  Is Tesla using any rectification in that diagram?  I don't see how anyone can get any sparks on a circuit without rectification. 

 

Marathonman posted this 27 April 2018

No Tesla is not using any rectification. the circuit was Tesla's from an old school book from the early to mid 1900 and it is quite possible that it doesn't need it since Tesla was the master in his domain. i have not tried this circuit but always wanted to because of it's simplicity.

my experience on the bench told me simplicity is usually the way to go. building a small model could  easily expel all doubt. a regular transformer of low frequency can be used as the high frequency part of the circuit is on the right side of the capacitor in the spark gap - primary area. 

Diodes were an invention by status quo people to block extra energies from flowing that is why in the early 1900 they used a magnetic field to block one way but flow the other. using this technique still allowed extra energies into the system but this is just my take on the subject

earlier models of NST's did not  have a GFCI, later after a few people got fried did they start installing them so the first assumption of Don Smith's device not having one is probably correct thus should be mitigated.

PS. it will make the circuit more dangerous though so take precautions.

Marathonman

sampojoe posted this 02 May 2018

I have been contemplating my next move.  The SGFP in the NST I believe is a big problem. Here is a picture of it with the access plate on the bottom removed.  

The potting compound over the transformer in the left compartment is epoxy-based and impossible to deal with.  As long as it is just the transformer in there, there should be no need for access as long as sufficient wiring comes out to feed the primary properly.  The compartment on the right hopefully contains all wires and circuitry needed for access as the potting compound there is very soft and easy to remove.  So it appears possible to perform an operation to remove the SGFP circuitry.  Is there an oscillator circuit that should be preserved?  If it is destroyed during potting compound removal, is the transformer ruined for a Smith Generator?

I am betting the oscillator circuit is not needed, by looking at Marathonman's post of Tesla's spark gap circuit to power a secondary and tertiary coil.  But if I tear it apart will I be able to preserve complete access to the transformer part?  That has led me to look for some other options.

Comparing the Smith Generator to the Tesla circuit,  the L2 is really the tertiary coil counting from the power input perspective.  But how does a circuit spark at such high frequencies without any oscillator circuitry and diodes to gracefully feed a capacitor to spark voltages?   I am beginning to think the Smith Generator is probably not operating at 35.1kHz of an NST, but at the 220 MHz that Don mentions in his videos and book.  In the Resonant Energy Systems book on p42, he states,

"Let us then compare the 60 c.p.s. System with my 220 MHz Device."

Two questions need answered.

  • How can the "early device" we are trying to build actually be Don's 220 MHz Device, and operate at the 220 MHz frequency and not 35.1kHz?  
  • How can the Tesla device operate without a diode/capacitor circuit to build voltages for the spark gap?

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sampojoe posted this 02 May 2018

I would say what is needed to generate extra power is high voltage, high frequency, and resonance.  Keeping these principles on the table going forward, lets look at question 2 first.  

  •  How can the Tesla device operate without a diode/capacitor circuit to build voltages for the spark gap (and provide a change to high frequency also)?

As a substitute system I have found a high voltage circuit using a car ignition coil online using a dimmer, capacitor, but no diode.  Here is a picture with a sizable spark.

Like Tesla's circuit, it works with 60 cycle power and no diode.  Here is the circuit diagram I have extracted as best as I can tell from the construction pictures.

  

So here we have a design more like Tesla's without the diodes, fulfilling the need of High voltage and possibly high frequency and noting that any coil automatically has capacitance.

sampojoe posted this 02 May 2018

I have asked the question before:

Why does Don use Diodes on the Output?

We know, for sure, the Input is a LC Resonant Spark Gap configuration, almost exactly like Nikola Tesla showed us 100 odd years ago:

Where, the 3 turn coil shown above is Dons L1 Coil which is 4 turns, and Don's Caps, 2 x 0.1 in parallel, is the Capacitor shown above, and the High voltage Neon Tube Transformer is the Step up transformer shown above.

Don's Secondary is completely different as we already know. Don's L2 Coil, as I have pointed out, is as described:

This is your L2 system, but its a double one, setup so that the Amps and Volts and everything are in there in the proper order.  This one I built in 1994.

Don Smith - /watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No&t=26m34s

   Chris

 

So lets take a stab at this post by Chris awhile back in conjunction with solving my L1 high voltage high frequency spark generation.  This question is the inverse of mine as I visualized how Don's rectified circuit might be made to generate an AC signal.  I think that a diode is required when developing high voltage for a SLOWER OUTPUT FREQUENCY  than the input, or when the input power takes several cycles to build sufficient charge for eventual discharge as when a HIGHER OUTPUT AMPERAGE is required on the output. Don may not have realized this, or its a distraction, but it seems Tesla understood it.  I believe the diodes are not needed at all for this application since the opposite requirements are the target in both cases.  So lets look at how this circuit may generate higher frequency.  The input voltage is a sine wave.  The spark gap is providing the frequency change, as long as once the minimum required voltage for discharge Vs is reached either at the positive or negative sides of the cycle, with the lower capacitance associated with the desired higher frequencies. So the higher the discharge rate the better, of course.  Here is a diagram to illustrate.

As Mman has recommended Tesla's circuit, so I have to wonder if he too has thought that a diode is not required and says as much when he stated that simpler is always better.

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Marathonman posted this 02 May 2018

The cap and coil in the Tesla circuit is an LC circuit which can be series or parallel.

And your assumption would be correct and that of the frequency also. remember the higher the frequency the larger the output thus your assumption about Don Smith. it may very well be just something he left out on purpose as he did with other information. what people don't realize Don was under contract with various entities thus could not divulge everything or suffer breach of contract.

i will leave you with this question and answer to ponder on, why do you think aircraft uses 400 hz and higher for military planes.? why does the size of the transformer change with higher frequency. 

power = square of the frequency.

Marathonman

sampojoe posted this 02 May 2018

Thanks Mman.  My sine wave diagram posted previously then reveals the answer to my first question two posts back,

  • How can the "early device" we are trying to build actually be Don's 220 MHz Device, and operate at the 220 MHz frequency and not 35.1kHz?  
  • Answer: In the Sine wave cycle with the yellow bars, the yellow bars represent individual spark discharges.  Depending on the LC tuning, the frequency of the circuit that is of concern to this device is the spark rate contained with the  powering cycle sine wave. In Don's pictured device with diodes, it may be rectified, but in a Tesla device it is AC.  Thus the current in the Spark is flipping from plus to minus.  Does this matter to L2?  Not at all.  As I posted once before in this diagram, 

L1 loses all sense of polarity voltage when it transmits to L2.  Thus the circuit can be made to operate at a frequency much faster than an NST's 35.1kHz.  This is a red herring I have been chasing, to think this circuit operates around this frequency.  

And best of all, I have a hunch the spark gap drives the circuit automatically at its resonant frequency.

This should be set by the length of the L1 coil and capacitor in the circuit.  Hopefully at some point I can risk putting an oscilloscope on it to test my assumptions.  I will have to keep it operating under 2000v with a probe that I have.

 

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Zanzal posted this 02 May 2018

How can the Tesla device operate without a diode/capacitor circuit to build voltages for the spark gap (and provide a change to high frequency also)?

Greetings sampojoe,

I appreciate you are sharing your experiences here. I learn from them. I think the answer to your question (the frequency part) has to do with the wave form that can appear as the capacitor is charging and also discharging across the spark gap. Depending on how you configure your spark gap and capacitors the wave form at resonance can be a little unexpected. This simulation might give you an idea of what you could see when you are at resonance. Although I think the frequency shown in the simulator is a little on the absurd side (unmeasurably high). I've seen these when using GDTs at lower voltages. Perhaps someone has a better image they can post of this.

Spark Gap High Frequency

Oh and I'm not entirely sure about how the capacitor actually accumulates a net charge. Maybe its accumulating kinetic energy with oscillations growing larger and larger in response to continued input at regular intervals.. like pushing a swing at just the right time.

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Marathonman posted this 02 May 2018

sampojoe;

  The spark gap introduces all frequencies available to the system,  it is up to the R resistance, C capacitance, and L inductance of L1 that dictate the resonant frequency not the spark gap it's self.

This is explicitly shown in the Tesla circuit i shown you with the spark gap between the cap and L1 coil leaving the cap as the buffer, to say, to the 60 hz transformer.

the secondary can then be calculated at 1/4 wave length from that according to DS with automatic resonance. 

i hope this helps.

 

Marathonman

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Zanzal posted this 02 May 2018

This should be set by the length of the L1 coil and capacitor in the circuit.  Hopefully at some point I can risk putting an oscilloscope on it to test my assumptions.  I will have to keep it operating under 2000v with a probe that I have.

My cheapo-scope can often pick up wave forms if I place the probe near a capacitor or wire. It allows me to see the wave form without risking damage. The voltage will be wrong and there can be stability issues sometimes, but if you just want to see the waveform, it might work with yours.. Could be a feature of cheap design though.

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Chris posted this 02 May 2018

@Sampojoe,

In an LC resonant Circuit, with a Spark Gap, and knowing the average Spark duration is around the nano second range normally, and the Coil with the least resistance would see the largest discharge Current, would you say that it would be fair to estimate the current something like the following:

This very short, sharp pulse, Spark Discharge, a change in Magnetic Field, would do what to the output Coils?

   Chris

 

P.S: For the record, again, I still recommend learning this tech at high voltage is not a good idea, I don't recommend this. Low Voltages is a much batter idea. Experiment at your own risk.

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sampojoe posted this 03 May 2018

With the dielectric of air running about 10000v per cm, with a very small gap of about 1mm, we may be able to observe operations around and maybe sllightly lower than 1000v.  

Chris posted this 03 May 2018

It will raise the Voltage on the Output Coils, the Difference in Potential by a factor... Potential to now do work.

   Chris

Chris posted this 03 May 2018

 

 

 

Do we have any further perspective on the Diodes?

Why does Don Smith use Diodes on his Output Coils:

 

When the Diodes Conduct, and Current flows, what does this create?

 

   Chris

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Jagau posted this 03 May 2018

Hi chris

See the attached document from Utkin, more precisely page 62 it explains very well what is the use of the 2 diodes at the output of 2 coils in buck mode.They create switchable inductance.

And with Tx quarter-wave balanced coil (L1C1) at resonance and the 2 Rx coils (L2C2) cut in half wave at the output and with the meeting point of the 2 coils to the ground this creates a receiving antenna which has a node in quarter wave.

Thus maximum current at the central nodal point, and maximum of voltage at the ends.

I realized what that Utkin proposes and I believe for a good understanding of Don Smith's project we should all try it. I work in low voltage for now to understand the effects.

Jack

 

 

Attached Files

sampojoe posted this 03 May 2018

Hi Chris,

I take the diodes on the output side to be the just the method Don has selected in his display model he used to begin the process of harvesting the ambient energy that has been captured by L2.  He has stated as much in his videos.  He shows an NST with 10000v potential running on a variac, so it is running at something less.  Aren't the caps on L1 5000v?  So again, something less than a 5000v operation may be indicated.  His spark arrestor component may top out around 2000v.  I haven't seen anything more on those.  So L1 may be operating around 2000v or less.  L2 is a step-up process of 4 times, or maybe around 8000v.  He has stated the system can put out 160kva, at 8000v.  The high voltage must be key to knocking loose the extra electrons i.e. current amplificaton, along with the nullification of Lenz's law with the opposing direction coils of L2.  So at the highest voltages on L2 must be transformed to something usable, but the 8000v cap bank is not the most practical method, but that is just the method Don has chosen to illustrate it on his display model.  And hence the diodes that do it on L2 are arbitrary also.

 Am I missing something from your knowledge and experience?  

In my modifications below, I am choosing to step down the voltage with a transformer first, and then rectify at voltages compatible with modern inverters available for solar panels.

However in the L1 circuit, I am now looking to drop the diodes (and the NST?).

 

Marathonman posted this 03 May 2018

Thank you for sharing that information Jagau. lots of very valuable information.

Marathonman

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Chris posted this 03 May 2018

@Jack - Exactly! - This is exactly correct!

@All,

We are all familiar with the Bedini Works? Well, we have the oppertunity to capture Flyback, Inductive Collapse, or what ever term you wish to use. See the following diagrams:

 

The led Lights, the Current through a 0.25 Ohm Resistor is shown, but the Input is not the Action that creates this, not directly! The input, is Directly responsible for Creating a Magnetic Field!

The Coil wants to become a Source! An Active Element, or a Battery, but why?

  • The Mosfet apply's 5 Volts across the Coil.
  • The Coil creates a Magnetic Field as the Current through the Coil Ramps Up.
  • The Mosfet is switched Off.

What Happens Now:

  • The Magnetic Field Collapses.
  • The Magnetic Field Induces a Voltage on the Terminals of the Coil. Electromagnetic Induction!
  • The Voltage is the Potential for Current to Flow, and when the Coil is Loaded, Current Flows, as shown.  

As Jack points out, a Switchable inductance, the Coil becomes a Source! But only when the Diodes Conduct.

Note: As we have learnt, amplifying Current requires an Acceleration and a Liberation of Electrons! I have covered this in my Thread: Increasing the Rate of Kinetic Energy. Also, we have seen this in The Mr Preva Experiment

 I have also shown this in my Thread: Some Coils Buck and some Coils DONT

 

The Output Current is entirely dependant on the Voltage: I = V / R

   Chris

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Jagau posted this 04 May 2018

.

Very accurate Chris is another way to represent the technique.

The great Nicolas Tesla used this technique in his patent 336961 see figure 2 of his patent.In his time the semiconductors did not exist, so he replaced the diodes mechanically.And yes switching inductance is the same thing as shunting inductance. Let me explain.

When a diode is forward bias the other diode becomes reverse bias and shunt so the corresponding coil and the cycle is repeated at each change of polarity.Tesla used this technique in his time well before us, see Tesla's description at line 15 of his attached patent 336961.

Imagine Tesla today with all the electronic equipment we have, it is permissible to dream.

Jack

Attached Files

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sampojoe posted this 04 May 2018

Fantastic resource for the switched inductance explanations.  I have left those diodes off of my remake of the Don Smith circuit I am trying to make!  WAIT!  I have noticed several circuits now in the Utkin PJ Kelly doc that do not have them, just bridge rectifiers.  More study needed.  

And it seems we have some sort of agreement that we can just hook up 60 cps power to a coil instead of trying to operate on an NST frequency.  Before I try to bypass the SGFP circuit on my NST, I will look at using an ignition coil.  I have a GM coil upper right in my last pic on the NST ready to go.  It has a dual output.  Not sure if it has dual internal coils or if the same coil would drive two spark plugs.  One thing I have noticed is that the spark plugs with these coils would do double duty, sparking at the top of each piston stroke, exhaust or combustion.  These coils seem to operate at high current and voltage.  Here is a circuit featuring a replacement for the NSTs which show their capacity. It is on P95 of the PJKelly book for Don Smith's Resonant Energy Systems Document.

Notice the oscillator and output diode circuitry, which we are on track to remove (from my replication anyway).  

So Chris, your diagram conveniently shows one spark discharge at the peak or trough of the sine wave for input power on L1.  Do you agree with my contention that there may be hundreds of output sparks per each input AC power cycle.  Is my point not clear enough with my diagram or is your diagram just a simplification?

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Chris posted this 04 May 2018

Jack, your'e absolutely correct again!

Don does say many times about this very patent:

 

@All - All these devices are the same! There are two ways I know of, to get to the same result:

  • DC Switched
  • Wave Theory, using 1/4 Wave technique.

Two different ways to reach the same end result. Timed Interactions of Electromagnetic Acceleration and Liberation of Electrons, an Electron Pump!

All the same: Don Smith, Akula is the same, Ruslan, all the Electromagnetic Machines that produce Energy, all the same!

   Chris, 

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Chris posted this 04 May 2018

Hey Sampojoe,

I am a firm believer in simplicity.

If I may recommend, again, start small simple and cheap, replicate my Thread: Some Coils Buck and some Coils DONT

Reason: The fundamental processes are the same and can be learned from.

It is then much easier to add to, to get to the same end result as Don Smith, or Akula, or Andrey Melnichenko, or Ruslan, or Tariel Kapanadze, after all, the basic underlying process is exactly the same!

   Chris

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sampojoe posted this 08 May 2018

Notice that it includes oscillator circuitry and uses the diodes.  Building a faster oscillator was discussed in the thread previously, to try to get up to a MHz range Don talked about, but it is apparently unnecessary as long as you are using a spark gap that fires sufficiently fast.  With my L1 coil length of ~18', I am off the top of my head looking at maybe 18Mhz quarter wave.  I think this is a big step so far and I am confident it will work.

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Chris posted this 08 May 2018

Hey Sampojoe,

Do you know the turn on times of your Diodes? Anywhere near 20ns? For High Voltage, I cant imagine they would be any faster than that. wink

   Chris

Marathonman posted this 09 May 2018

Thank you Jagau for that PDF, very informative.

Marathonman

Chris posted this 10 May 2018

Hey Sampojoe,

Do you know the turn on times of your Diodes? Anywhere near 20ns? For High Voltage, I cant imagine they would be any faster than that. wink

No answer?

   Chris

Chris posted this 14 May 2018

@Sampojoe - I hope all is ok, I hope your'e well.

I see you still have not replied.

   Chris

Chris posted this 09 June 2018

My Friends,

I stumbled on to the following Video when looking for a full version of another:

 

Although its a good demonstration, I would have to say, this is a demonstration of how NOT to approach Energy Machines! I see so many problems in this video, Energy In is never ever in a billion years going to magically Create more Energy Out!

A Means of "Generation" and a clear understanding of it is the first basic requirement and this is not shown at all during this video.

In saying this, this guy does do a good job at giving some basics.

Pseudo Circuits I am also guilty of - Reason being is there is many hundreds of ways this can work!

The Video I was looking for I found and its clearer than the one I had 15 Parts to: ( Thanks missispots for sharing!)

 

   Chris

 

sampojoe posted this 11 June 2018

Hello All, Nice videos Chris.  I have been busy and still trying to catch up on personal matters, but still trying some new circuits. Summarizing the last post, I think Jered is getting off on a tangent with the second capacitor in his corrected and more correct Tesla L1 circuit pretty much as we have come to agree here, or at least the one I believe is best and most correct.  But I will hold an open mind until I get a working test rig. 

It is of course in his L2 coils, it is not at all clear if he has Partnered Output Coils, and probably not since he seems to have gotten out less than he has input.  We all must realize that Don was a petroleum engineer retreading himself in physics, and I understand him best when I spot potentially some basic mistakes possibly just when he is speaking extemporaneously.  Yes I have breezed by that diagram Jered talks about as being wrong, looking past the mistake of frequency vs. time, etc.  But his book,  "Resonant Energy Systems",  has a more representative workable Tesla style circuit.  In many of his videos, he states  "just hook things up and it will work" or as in the above video at 13:45 approx. "almost tuned immediately", but does get strict about the quarter wave theory.  I want to expand on his relatively disarming statement about things like "just hook it up and it will work"

I am leaning toward Marathonman's inputs, i.e. his simplified Tesla diagram here,

and focus on something he pointed out about the sparkgap signal that is generated containing essentially all frequencies, similar to for instance a square wave.  I am moving toward the L1 circuit not needing a diode, as I have posted about such a circuit with AC input generating high voltage relatively continuous sparking.   Not exactly continuous as I theorize with this diagram.

In any sparking circuit , I believe we will get layers of sparking events, at increasing frequency.  The highest major frequency will be the individual spark rate.  A group of sparking events will follow the base input frequency of the AC power, either the NST frequency or say 60cps as in Tesla's diagram.  I believe the individual spark discharge will have an odd sometimes random shape, dependent upon the gas discharge properties on the plasma for that event.  As with a square wave, that event will be constructed of the necessary broad spectrum of frequencies.  To generate those of a square wave, I remember from my engineering calculus, it requires the integration of an infinite or essentially all frequencies, as Marathonman has pointed out in this thread.  Therefore a spark gap easily supplies whatever the harmonic frequency of your particular LC circuit needs.  Thus Don is proven right in some advanced electronics theory, when he states, "just hook it up and it will work".

Looking at this circuit, I have tried a circuits with elements I have had laying around, a dual coil from my 2006 Buick, a dual fan dimmer, and my variac instead of a dimmer.

It seems my variac has quit working, I can't tell if my coil is working or which side is ground, and the dimmer is putting out suspicious performance.  I salvaged the needed caps from some TVs, and I don't get the expected voltage performance on the other side.  I have new caps, a new old-style points type car coil, and a new dimmer and wiill be hooking up soon, as life gets in the way still.

 

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sampojoe posted this 11 June 2018

The L1 circuit will be built off of the spark gap side of the above coil, and I will examine dropping the use of diodes in it.  An I must mention how Jagu stated previously that the circuit need not be built around the NST frequency, as I assume he had come to the same conclusion as Marathonman.  My coil length of my L1 quarter wave theory I calculated to operate around 900 MHz, a bit higher than Don's 220 MHz number that has been brought up in this thread.  Not there yet, but perhaps an LC calculation is in order, the bigger problem being the capacitance of the coil, but I think it obeys a formula I can find.  But just an academic exercise based on if it sparks it works.

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Vidura posted this 12 June 2018

Hi sampojoe Following the thread I would like to give some hints I you want. I have been working with tesla coils for a couple of years, for other usage, corona ozonizers for water purification and swimming pool sterilization.With this devices I had much better results with 35khz neon drivers than with the ignition coil circuits.Although the latter gives very high voltage, the overall power and efficiency is less due to the frequency limiting cores. With a high sparking rate(convenient for high frequency coils) such a high voltage is not necessary. For lower power applications the best results I had with a 12v 6A and 6000volts out driver China made ~25$ . It has moderate power consumption , output voltage can be controled with input voltage. When I connected a ground between the driver and rectifier the output doubles without affecting the input. If you are interested I can send specifics and image, also I have some design for tungsten spark gap device.If I can help with anything just let me know. Hopefully we will see this generator working soon.

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sampojoe posted this 12 June 2018

Reply to Vidura:

Hi sampojoe Following the thread I would like to give some hints I you want. ... For lower power applications the best results I had with a 12v 6A and 6000volts out driver China made ~25$ . It has moderate power consumption , output voltage can be controled with input voltage. When I connected a ground between the driver and rectifier the output doubles without affecting the input. If you are interested I can send specifics and image.

Yes, interested.  I do have a 10000v NST, but I had a poor spark rate, that I have been blaming on the Secondary Ground Fault Protection circuitry.  It seemed to pulse at a few sparks per second, as I thought the SGFP was triggering and resetting.  I have been weighing an option  to attempt to disable that circuitry with possibly a switch, which may end badly as I do have to remove a soft potting material around it   You do not have such issues with your NST?

 

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Vidura posted this 12 June 2018

The small 12v device has no ground fault protection, only open circuit shutdown. When connected to a load-capacitor it starts immediately. For the bigger devices i used the old type of NST the transformer type with 12 - 15KV  30mA output without GFP, but usually i used only one half of the windings(centre tap and one output), as i found that 6- 7 KV is enough when the coil is properly tuned. A higher primary voltage will also affect the spark gap material, it wears out quickly in continuos operation.

with the 12KV  35khz device that you have i have never tried, so i don't know how to cancel the GFP, but there is certainly some info on internet about.

 

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Vidura posted this 12 June 2018

It is this type of NST i have used , the one i have is 6KV ,this is 7.5KV.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CPI-Advanced-CPI-DC-75-Neon-Sign-Transformer-Power-Supply-12v-DC/163078480959?hash=item25f83c243f:g:wqIAAOSw4EhaeNMd

You can find some pics of a sparkgap and a hv capacitor, custom made, as attachment.

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Vidura posted this 13 June 2018

Here is some additional information for the spark plug device: the spark plug has to be without resistor , I have removed the outer electrode and drilled a 2mm hole in the center electrode, about 4mm deep. Here a peace of tungsten bar (from mig welding 2mm) is inserted, the same at the stainless steel plate on the opposite side, which is attached with silver welding.The gap should be around 1.5 - 2mm, if adjustment is needed ,some washer can be used in the spark plug thread. The device can be filled with argon to avoid oxidation. The Capacitor is made from two copper sheets 0.1mm x10cmx100cm with 5 layers of polyethylene foil 0.15mm in between. This is inserted in a 50mm pvc tube and filled with dielectric transformer oil( I have also made some with line seed oil, it works as well).care has been taken that no air bubbles remaines, as the corona discharge will damage the polyethylene foil.

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Marathonman posted this 13 June 2018

sampojoe;

 That circuit is directly from Tesla himself not me. i just found it in some early 1900 book i was reading online a few years ago and thought i needed to save it for a rainy day, well guess what, it's raining.  yes you are correct about the spark gap, it does contain all frequencies and yes the system will pick out it's own resonate frequency from what is offered to it but can be raised or lowered to your own frequency of choice. that is why Don stated just hook it up and it works. reading between the lines is sometimes useful habit.

i personally would start with that circuit as it just may well you will not need all the other garbage in the system. if you find out it does well no harm done just add it.

Marathonman

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sampojoe posted this 14 June 2018

sampojoe;

That circuit is directly from Tesla himself not me.

Of course Mman!  But credit goes to your astuteness!

SOOO  I would like to announce  

 

Success, sort of.  I am getting +10,000v with my new car coil, 2uF cap, and dimmer.  However I seem to have no control with my dimmer.  I sure would like to put out about 1000v here.  Well this bypasses the diodes and SGFP issues!  Whew, at least its sparking!  It seems like it is getting the full 110v AC

So now the task is to control the input power and then move on to L2 construction!  At last some movement! My variac is acting up with the other previous components and I am just not understanding some multimeter measurements either.  I will be troubleshooting the variac.  In order to control noise in this circuit, the plug on the other side of the dimmer needs that noise attenuation loop so it doesn't get into house power circuit also.

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Marathonman posted this 15 June 2018

I thank you for the comment.

I did study the Smith devices for a few years but back then there was not as much information as there is now. that is why i have a B W coil and two non GFI neon sign transformers one at 7,500 v  and the other at 9,000 v along with a few 10 and 15 thousand volt caps. maybe after the Figuera device i will try my hand at it again...... who knows.

also remember Tesla did use opposing magnets on his spark gap at times i guess as sort of a snubber circuit that also compressed the electron gap to a thin layer arching between the electrodes which is very interesting to me but i never researched it in depth. everything Tesla did was for a very good reason.

Marathonman

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sampojoe posted this 16 June 2018

OK, just gave the variac another try, plugging my dimmer cord into it and VIOLA! running it at a ~40v setting and then the dimmer seemed to provide control of the spark, but not as expected again.  It hummed when first turned on, no spark, as the voltage is too low.  Turning up the dimmer, and my spark gap set at bout 2mm, I first get some intermittent sparking.  About midrange I get a steady strong spark.  Turning up the dimmer to full strength, it surprisingly stops sparking, the opposite of what you would expect.  I should test with just the variac.

Running at midrange then, with a dielectric breakdown constant of 3 x 106 v/m (Tipler, Paul A. College Physics. Worth, 1987: 467), I calculate a nice voltage of 1500v!   I think this is getting close.  Assuming about a 4 times step-up voltage in L2, that brings it to 6000v.  The cap on that circuit that I plan to use is good to 5000v,  so I need to operate at no higher than 1250v.  I will mic out the gap very carefully.

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sampojoe posted this 16 June 2018

Construction of L2

 

From the PJ Kelly version of Don Smith's Resonant Energy Systems on the last 2 pages, there are instructions to build these homemade, rather than buying the from Barker-Williamson.  I think it would be a special order since we are going to do a CW half and a CCW half, as Chris shows in his hyiq pic

 

 

Shown below is how to construct the coil former to wind the coil parts on.

 

 

 

 

In this diagram epoxy is shown to form a strip when it was on the former.  Plastic strips ar overlaid on the epoxy on one coil, building in some strength.

 

See the book, copies of which have been attached on this thread and of which Chris has the file also.

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dummyload posted this 16 June 2018

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Vidura posted this 16 June 2018

Hi dummyload, The function of the oil is as dielectric in first place, with higher dielectric constant than air, and also for cooling the spark gap electrode,as they get consumed when working for extended periods.Tesla has built some devices which where entirely submerged in oil, as this also prevented losses from streamers when operating at high voltage levels.

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Marathonman posted this 18 June 2018

I was always under the assumption that the spark gap had to be between the cap and the primary coil for it to pick up it's resonate frequency. if it is on the other side it will not as the caps will interfere.???

Marathonman

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Vidura posted this 18 June 2018

Hi MM. The spark gap "shorting" the input was teslas prefered design, as in this configuration the two capacitors with the L1 coil in between charge up in series, when the spark ocurres the potential on input is equally and nearly all current from the caps discharge thru the L1 coil, then the input transformer or generator act as ground and the C-L1-C circuit goes on oscillating .this makes this configuration very efficient and less energy is dissipate in the spark gap.

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sampojoe posted this 18 June 2018

Thank You Vid!    So now I have a working L1 but it is designed around the 9th harmonic of  the NST frequency, which I calculated at 18MHz.  It makes my L1 at 5" total length, many times larger than than Don's, supposedly operating at 220MHz.  I have seen repliications using some pretty long L2 coils, getting interesting output.  Not sure if they did the wavelength calculations.  My L2 length will be about 14" total. which does not seem to hard to build.  My L2 details for my current design of L1 is 3.5' D, 29 turns per half coil, with .25" spacing.  The wire length per half coil is ~26'.  It seems every thing gets easier if I go to a higher frequency...  I think I may bump everything up to operate at 35.9Mhz.  but this seems to make my L2 small.  I think Don's comes in around 19 turns per half coil,   So it would seem to be several multiples of wavelength greater than his L1, which would still resonate.  I would say that 1 wavelength in coil length is the minimum of L2.  Don's 5 tuns of wire on L1 would again be much larger than Chris' quarter wave theory he has posted.  But again I believe the quarter wave on the L1 transmitter would be a minimum, and it could be a whole wavelength? 

Chris, Please comment.

As far as L2, if it were 2 wavelengths long it would also receive just as well, Maybe better since it would receive more signal?

I am leary about deviating much from Don's pictured device, but I keep coming back to it being just a display model.  Left to my own devices, I may shorten L1 and stay with the 19 turn L2 half coils.

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Chris posted this 18 June 2018

Thank You Vid!    So now I have a working L1 but it is designed around the 9th harmonic of  the NST frequency, which I calculated at 18MHz.  It makes my L1 at 5" total length, many times larger than than Don's, supposedly operating at 220MHz.  I have seen repliications using some pretty long L2 coils, getting interesting output.  Not sure if they did the wavelength calculations.  My L2 length will be about 14" total. which does not seem to hard to build.  My L2 details for my current design of L1 is 3.5' D, 29 turns per half coil, with .25" spacing.  The wire length per half coil is ~26'.  It seems every thing gets easier if I go to a higher frequency...  I think I may bump everything up to operate at 35.9Mhz.  but this seems to make my L2 small.  I think Don's comes in around 19 turns per half coil,   So it would seem to be several multiples of wavelength greater than his L1, which would still resonate.  I would say that 1 wavelength in coil length is the minimum of L2.  Don's 5 tuns of wire on L1 would again be much larger than Chris' quarter wave theory he has posted.  But again I believe the quarter wave on the L1 transmitter would be a minimum, and it could be a whole wavelength? 

Chris, Please comment.

As far as L2, if it were 2 wavelengths long it would also receive just as well, Maybe better since it would receive more signal?

I am leary about deviating much from Don's pictured device, but I keep coming back to it being just a display model.  Left to my own devices, I may shorten L1 and stay with the 19 turn L2 half coils.

 

Hi Guys, some good progress!

First, I want to re-iterate, I definitely do not recommend the use of High Voltage! However, at your own risk be it.

 

Quarter Wavelength

I have covered the Quarter Wavelength many times, but the reason one needs Quarter Wavelength is simply the configuration of the Coils. Each Partnered Output Coil is Quarter Wavelength, both together is Half Wavelength.

All the greats before us told us this if one does the research!

 

Kind time of day. Maybe here we will find a common language. At once I will say that I do not sit at forums much. No time ! However, now for the 5th time I am collecting Akulin for a capacity increase. There are ideas .... But in fact the people are looking for a bit of everything is not right. All these systems operate on the basis of standing and traveling waves. It is necessary first to catch the motion of particles in the coil. Those. as Kapanadze does with a tester or an ammeter. Only at HF frequencies no ammeter will help and you will need to catch an oscilloscope. The first rule: Wind the coil 40 meters. 2. Find out its resonant frequency (1/4 wave) Inductor 1/4 = 10 meters of the same wire (for example, 2.5mm) Connect the generator to a 10 meter coil, drive the rectangles at a frequency of 1 MHz and crawl higher until 40 meters do not appear sinusoid. The maximum amplitude. The generator is desirable to take a normal, laboratory! With output adjustment from 0 to 20 volts. We achieve maximum amplitude and move tenths of a kilohertz until it starts to dance. This is your wave resonance !!! We fix the frequency and voltage. It is for this all have to do the generators. Further ... Tesla we shake under this frequency that the effect has turned out. Then we do everything as I did or the Shark. In this case, everyone wants to repeat this device. Forward! We fix everything beautifully and stiffly, without forgetting that the resonance and effect can escape in the case of fastenings on the snot. We need to get the effect itself and work, and not a ready device. Once you begin to understand what to do next, you can already move. So .... Tesla, as we know, also wets the sinusoid. Suppose your frequency is 1.821MHz. The frequency, but alas. It is necessary to adjust Tesla on it. The shark used a critic between Tesla and the toroid (Antenna) over the inductor. This is just an accurate adjustment. It is needed before launching. Then the system holds and no matter what has slipped in not large limits. But! Again ... What where? On the Inductor we feed the signal of rectangles with a frequency of 1/50. Consider: 1820: 50 = 36.4 kHz pumping a rectangle through the junction (Pot) with 23-29 turns of wire 2.5 squares. I repeat, you need to make the voltage on this harmonic not 10-20 volts, but higher by an order of magnitude. Approximately up to 50-60 volts and get the same dancing effect at the output. Further ! Do not forget that Tesla does not need strong power. Do not let sparks run and wet so that it breaks through. This is not necessary !!! It's better to make a controlled Tesla. Continue: The output voltage will be 195-200 volts. This voltage will not be higher. Why? Later we will return to this. It is necessary to rewind the transformer-reactor (Coil) so as to obtain the desired voltage. This requires experiments. Remember that we push the current in the reactor with a transverse wave. Created by Tesla. In the coil another wave is formed under the action of pumping by rectangles. The particles of which constantly rotate left and right. By giving them the movement of the pulsating Tesla, we disperse them in the very conductor. This is a gemmoroid understanding, but a fact. Tesla must operate in one half-cycle or one arm of the transistor. It is advisable to manage the Tesla pack - pulse generator. When everything is clearly adjusted, you will see how the effect manifests when changing the width of the pack. Consumption Tesla is scanty, and pumping does not strain at all. The current at the output is up to 7 amperes and the voltage is 200-209 volts. Bulbs and PSU pulses work well. Now for removal: 1. The coil is connected via a diode bridge. No parallel capacitors !!! 2. You need from Tesla only one half wave. Otherwise Tesla will take what she gave, back !!! Therefore, and put the diode from the ground to the very take-off coil (40m) The shark did this at the reception. He removed one part of the sine at the reception itself. Because Tesla. No one knows this and -bip-tsya to this day, nichrome does not work. It's clear! You need to swing the swing in the coil of energy removal. It is there that we push the current. By the way, the surplus from Tesla and the frequency setting of the Shark used a simple light bulb. Since the Inductor is galvanically isolated from the entire circuit, the light bulb serves as a resistive load to suppress surplus from cords and pickups. You can not bet, but do not rock Tesla very much. Do not ! Remember that the current is subject to voltage. This I see from experiments that I spent 2 more years ago. Next: The diode on the receiving take-off coil destroys one half-cycle and so we swing the oscillations without hindering them by the negative Tesla period. This, too, many do not know and continue to sculpt. That's why Roman (Shark) says that he is eating ground ... Everything is right! Because it kills the half-period pulse at the reception, which is grounded. This can be seen in all his settings! I wondered for a long time why he decided to use this solution and realized that it's easier to pick up BB diodes. Since interference at such frequencies in Tesla will lead to its improper operation. In other words, it will not be possible to cut off the half-period. Kapa solved this issue with an arrester and rectifiers at low frequencies. There everything is simpler, but more wires .... So on the German installation the diode is small, Tesla is far away, the grounding cable is long. By the way is equal to the length of Tesla !!! Do not forget about grounding .... On this installation it is important and without good support (grounding) will not work. Do not forget that the systems use high voltage. As we know, it moves even in the air. That's why grounding is necessary. Plus wave resonance and safety .... Like that .....

 

For me, I choose to learn one step at a time, I do not label a theory to be wrong until I fully understand where and why the theory is wrong. I believe following the clues that those before us, gave us, is much more beneficial than branding what can not yet be branded.

Please stay open minded, you truly do, already know how these machines are supposed to work. Bucking Magnetic Fields at the right Time in the Cycle and to do this one needs to make the Reflectance back on the Input Additive! 

   Chris

Vidura posted this 19 June 2018

Hi sampojoe ,Chris.

Im glad to see that there is a progress. You are all so much better in doing this calculations than me, only think about a few practical behaviours of this coil systems. Although you do very accurate calculations be aware that you have not only the coils,wires. there is a important influence of capacitive components. By only move any object near the coil the frequency changes, still more all the components with direct wired connection will have an influence. so the final tuning has to be done by trial only. Many of the Smith devices have means for tuning , adjustable caps, moving L1 coil and others. I have never worked on this kind of application, but i would Guess that it could be more practical to keep frequency and also L2 voltage at lower levels, this will be saver and easier for the final rectifying stage(components will be less stressed). You can bring down the frequency by adding capacitance or by grounding at convenient points. also be aware of the layout, as all the connecting wires adds to the coils length when longitudinal oscillating. 

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Chris posted this 19 June 2018

I hope this helps some:

 

   Chris

sampojoe posted this 19 June 2018

How to Make Uni-directional Wound Coils "Buck".

 

In Chris' partnered coils hyiq lead off photo, let us examine coil winding and current flow.  As we employ this circuit, we use AC current as Nikola Tesla and Don Smith did.  Lets take a snap-shot of current flow in one direction, as indicated by the black current arrows in the coil wires, to understand how it works.  In doing this I am just extrapolating the right-hand rule to the generation of a magnetic field by current in a wire.  Due to the change in coil winding direction from Clockwise to Counter-Clockwise, these coils generate opposing North magnetic fields, cancelling themselves to give us current amplification, as I understand so far.

 

 

 

In the video I posted back in Jan. on Kdkinen's work on the Smith Generator, he uses Barker-Williams stock coils hooked up in "series", just as Don shows in his display model, all wound in the same direction.  He notes he gets significantly better performance, however, when he has hooked the coils up in "parallel".  What exactly does that mean?   These coils are wound in one direction only.  The question I would like to elucidate is,

Can you make two coils wound in the same direction behave as indicated above when they are wound either both CW, or CCW?  If so, how?"  

I wish to illustrate what he means using Chris' diagram slightly redrawn to illustrate it.  In the following diagram, both coils are wound CCW.  The twist direction is a coil's unique property.  It is the same no matter how the coil is rotated to examine it.  The right side coil is the same and in this snap-shot of DC current, with it exiting out at connection B, the same for Chris' coil.

 

In order for the left coil to generate an opposing N magnetic field, the current must be driven in the opposite direction if both coils are wound in the same direction.  Using the right-hand rule, the input point A of the left coil must be moved to the middle of the whole coil.  The center-point connection C must now be made from the left side of the coil to the left side of the right coil.  For a CW coil to generate cancelling N magnetic fields, the current flow in the above diagram must be reversed also.  That is how an off-the-shelf Barker-Williamson coil, or any set of coils wound in the same direction can be connected to achieve partnered output performance.

sampojoe posted this 19 June 2018

But getting back to the quarter wave stuff, I have not gotten a good look anywhere of exactly the size of Don's L1, but it seems only about 2.5' total length, on a ~2" pipe, (I say it is 2.5"), it would have to be closer to 36MHz, not Don's 220MHz. And the 19-turn full wave Barker-Williams coils, comes out to be more like 18Mhz, again not the 220MHz.  Don't you think my L1 is at least twice as large as Don's?  I will go over my wavelength calculations again.  Agreed that the 4-1 ratio is key as an rf transmitter-receiver arrangement, but not getting close to 220MHz so far.

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dummyload posted this 19 June 2018

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Chris posted this 19 June 2018

DummyLoad - Excellent reference!

This is true, a node can easily be fouund:

 

Studding carefully here one can see some very important details!

   Chris

Chris posted this 19 June 2018

@Sampojoe

The modifications to my Graphic of Partnered Output Coils is not correct!

Your drawing does not directly follow any of the information I have laid out.

My main and long time released Circuit for these Coils is Parallel and this is also what my recent set of experiments with CD_Sharp shows.

 

 

I have detailed another Configuration also:

 

 

One must remember, the E.M.F and also the Current is "Generated" by the Action - It opposes because its Lenz's Law

 

Two Configurations I have found that work, and one can be better than the other. I have covered this in great detail in my Thread: Some Coils Buck n some Coils DONT and also in my pdf document: Guidelines to Bucking Coils.

 

Some more helpful Info:

 

   Chris

Chris posted this 19 June 2018

Sapmpjoe and all following,

If I may put my 2 cents in, I think there is some confusion here.

Don used off the shelf Barker & Williamson Coil Stock:

 

 

There is One Turn difference from this coil to Don's Coils, almost ZERO Modifications to the Off the Shelf Coils, remember he had two back to back:

 

One Coil was LC Resonant with a small Capacitor parallel to the Coil. This Coil must be bought into Resonance or tuned for resonance.

 

 

The Wavelength that needs to be worked with is the Resonant Frequency of the device, not of the NST or any other component. The Coils them selves must be bought into resonance, just like I showed in the above quote, just as The Mr Preva Experiment shows, just as we have learnt in our follow up experiments. This is the Wavelength that needs to be worked with, none others!

The Input is only a catalyst for the Output Coils, its the tickle under the Chin, its the "Common boys we got work to do" but as always the boss does no work!

Start from the Output and work back, its much easier, do not focus on your Input, its going to change no matter how good a guess you make!

Remember, 16/17 Turns to 4 Turns = 1/4 or 0.25 the Wire length, of the Output Coil. Focus on the fact that ALL EM Energy sits in the 1/4 Wavelength:

 

 

Remember our work in the Parametric Resonance area:

 

EDIT: Its worth noting, the Partnered Output Coil that is LC Resonant, will most definitely change the Resonance Frequency when the Second Partnered Output Coil is connected, so for this reason, one must tune with this in mind!

Also Remember: 1 + -1 + 1 = 1

In other words, the Second Output Coil stops all negative and actually is additive to the input, so the Resonance on the Output Coils, the same as in The Mr Preva Experiment and also the Diodes, brings a positive affect on the Input. 

   Chris

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Chris posted this 20 June 2018

My Friends,

I have always stated, focus on hard facts and nothing else. Here is some hard data for you.

Barker and Williamson still sell Coils, the following website: https://www.bwantennas.com/ - Notice the use of Antennas in the URL

Barker & Williamson air wound inductors have been an industry standard since their introduction in 1932. They offer high Q and mechanical stability, and come in a variety of sizes. Diameters from 1/2 to 6 inches, coil lengths to 22 inches, and wire sizes from AWG #8 to #24. The coils are wound with tinned solid copper wire that is embedded in plastic ribs.

Now, the Website has a catalogue, copied for your convenience:

 

EDIT; My mistake on Coil Turns, removed for correctness and clarity.

 

My Friends, this is hard data off the website, Don stated exactly and empirically:The Output Coils are off the shelf, no modifications, stock standard Coil, 

 

Remember what Don said, its all about getting "the Coils to Talk to each other":

 

We know Don referred to L2 as a singular Coil, I do not, it is two separate Coils, I call them Partnered Output Coils. Each Coil must by Faraday's Law of Electromagnetic Induction, induce an E.M.F on the other and this will be in opposition to the change, so the Amplitude on half of L2 that is resonant must induce the same change but in the opposite direction to the other half of L2, so technically, these two Coils are separate, they are individual Coils, each having an individual task and doing work on each other.

again, which Don has also said:

 

Lets keep this simple, lets not complicate where no complications are necessary. Does everyone know what Wattless power is? Research this, Don also referred to it. Learn why 

   Chris

 

P.S: I am not always right, and will admit it, I am still learning. I encourage all here to do their own homework, check and double check, Hard Fact can never be proven wrong, no matter how good the Troll is!

 

Marathonman posted this 20 June 2018

WOW ! I never realized it before Chris but you are totally right, Don did use two BW's in his device. well kiss my grits how in the world did i ever miss that one,

THANKS !

Marathonman

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sampojoe posted this 21 June 2018

The use of the BW coil is mentioned in my original source material obtainable at Line 4 of my post, and also mentioned in PJ Kelly's Don Smith book.  Here it is in this well-known picture, but to which I have added enumeration of points of interest: 

It is clearly a 4" 40 turn model, about 12 gauge, cut in half, and then joined again at location 8 in the diagram.  

Please note.  This means, and you can clearly see, that both halves are CW wound, and thus not a partnered CW/CCW pair.

The first wire comes down from overhead, is joined on the junction block with the second wire, which then proceeds to go under the pipe to the second coil in the same winding direction, as opposed to reversing to CCW.  This is why I posted the workaround modified hyiq parthered coil diagram.  I will strive to prove it after a successful DS build is achieved.

 

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Aetherholic posted this 21 June 2018

Some information, maybe useful or not.

It is very probable that Don Smith used a layer of piezo electric material underneath his L1 coil. It can be seen as a black layer on the L1 former in the last series of videos he made where he is going through some old photographs of his many builds. I believe he said it is the same material used for under road vibration electricity generation.

"If you wish to understand the universe think of energy, frequency and vibration." - Tesla

 

 

Aetherholic - One truth, One field

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Chris posted this 21 June 2018

Hey Sampojoe,

I saw and read your Barker and Williamson Coils and yes you're right. But still, they are off the shelf.

Technically the term "Partnered Output Coils" is defined as any device, or any machine that has Two Output Coils, any... The key word being Two.

I have provided a Pseudo Schematic for convenience for the public. I have predefined two optimum configurations that can be easily learned from, from very early days, in my Guidelines to bucking Coils, around 4 or so years ago now, and others that do not work very well in my Thread: Some Coils Buck n some Coils DONT - Winding direction is dependant on Configuration and not defined in the Term: "Partnered Output Coils"..

I have stated on many occasions, this can work many hundreds of ways, there is no right or wrong. This is the reason for the Pseudo Schematic. 

Critically, the Interactions between these Two Output Coils are what "Generates" Electrical Energy.

Start with the Output Coils, get them working properly and then the Input can be constructed around the requirements of your Partnered Output Coils.

I hope you succeed!

   Chris

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sampojoe posted this 21 June 2018

Hey Sampojoe,

...

Start with the Output Coils, get them working properly and then the Input can be constructed around the requirements of your Partnered Output Coils.

   Chris

Exactly!  So in that direction, I will build them on "paper" first!

Frequency calculations affecting L1 & L2 Design mods.

I am going to design around Don's L2 and work backwards to establish L1 parameters. My L2 coil former will be 3.5” in diameter. A 40 turn coil length will equal one wavelength at about 11.2m, or 26.8MHz. At a quarter wavelength, the L1 must then be 2.8m in length. On my 2.75” D L1 former, I must cut back my current model to 12.75 turns. This takes care of the physical parameters of my "antenna" to support my selected frequency.  

Next, we must look at the electrical characteristics. Lets calculate the inductance of the L1 coil first, using my Navy Basic Electricity Training Manual. The formula is:

L=.4πN2μA x 10-8/l , μ is permeability(=1 for air coil), A cross-section cm2, N turns, l coil length cm

 

L1 inductance comes in at 2.4 microhenries. Now we calculate the value of capacitance needed to create resonance at the right frequency, using a formula from my Foundations of Electromagnetic Theory,

ω2=1/LC -or- solve for L, L=1/C ω2, or solve for C, C=1/L ω2

Now here is a surprise. C calculates to be 576 pF!! This is considerably smaller than than what is shown in Don's display models at .2uF. With smaller components comes a price savings!  Of course, this will be a starting point, and any and various means mentioned in this thread will be employed to fine tune the system. Also the addition of a ferrite core, estimated at a permeability of 500 will lower the value of the capacitance to about 1pF!  

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Chris posted this 21 June 2018

@Sampojoe - For the record, I think your'e doing an awesome job!

I apologise if my posts are in anyway short of rude, that's not my intention, I am only trying to help. Please understand, I spend many hundreds of hours, sourcing, sorting, and referencing Data for all here. My word is only a small part of what I am trying to share,

In many cases my posts are planned out well in advance.

I spend a lot of time just keeping things going. Like most of us, I have a lot of other things I have to also attend to.

So, Good Job, keep the good work up, if you keep it simple and keep it to Dons Device and his excellent advice, many will benefit very soon. Remember, it is Partnered Output Coils where the magic happens, find their resonant Frequency and make the coils talk to each other as Don said.

   Chris

AHargis75 posted this 21 June 2018

Im not sure if this has been mentioned but the Barker and Williamson coils have been tin dipped he said, when you coat a wire with tin it increased is magnetic field by like 300%. thats all. 

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Chris posted this 21 June 2018

Im not sure if this has been mentioned but the Barker and Williamson coils have been tin dipped he said, when you coat a wire with tin it increased is magnetic field by like 300%. thats all. 

Hey AHargris - Wow thanks, I did not know that!

   Chris

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Marathonman posted this 24 June 2018

I know this is a distraction for which i am very sorry but it is very funny as i have been laughing for hours and i hope you find humor in it also.

here is my secondary i might use for my Don Smith replication, i hope it is big enough as i plan on powering my house with it i hope.

I ordered it special from BW and i might need help on the calculations.

Please forgive me Sampojoe.

Marathonman

Vidura posted this 24 June 2018

Awesome coil MM. I imagine a coil like this in a Smith generator could power an entire city!! @sampojoe Your comment in the secondary coils calculations about the capacitors, I am in doubt about the 220mhz operation of the original device, as the output rectifier would need to operate at4.5ns period wave, what devices could manage this?

sampojoe posted this 25 June 2018

MM: HaHa, he got bit bad by the Tesla bug.  Vid: Yeah the wavelength if applied to the possible length of the BW coil will be a little longer than mine, as I think it is a 4" coil, judging from the catalog posted by Chris.  Hmm, that would move it toward 22MHz!  I wonder if Don got an extra zero in his calculation?  Some construction info below in case someone finds it useful.

My L2 Construction

I have not been able to find some essential components to build my L2 by the method found in the PJK's Practical Guide to Free Energy Devices on Don Smith Resonant Energy Systems publication. I think it might be easier than what I have so far, but I may try it next time, as I still hunt for what else I need for those construction techniques.  I have everything I need for my alternative and have started it.  Here is a picture of the components:

 

 

My basic construction will be each coil half will be shaped around the white rings cut from a 3.5" PVC pipe.  Each half will have a ring on each side and fastened together on 4 5/16" fiberglass poles.  Each pole will be countersunk and held by a 2-56 screw and epoxied also.  In order for the coil to have a 1/4" spacing, 20 slots will be made in each pole, but staggered by 1/16" from pole to pole to accomodate the "screw" pattern of the wire.  In order to make those slots I put 4 poles in a wood holder with the stagger step at each block on the side.  I can now make 4 properly aligned slots on each pole at once, which are marked on the white poles.  I will use 2 blades together to get the required .08" slot for 12ga. wire.   I calculate the coil length to be about 5" but the total length will be 6", in case I need to move out to gain resonance.  

 

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Chris posted this 30 June 2018

My Friends,

I tried to share another video from Don Smith and it was instantly removed, instantly as soon as I hit the publish button.

 

The video is actually this one with all the guff removed:

 

 

So, clearly YouTube are running their Copyright Algorithm on Name and Description first.

 

   Chris

 

Zed Varnett posted this 30 June 2018

Hello Chris,

I'm the owner of energyevo.com (you might have seen collection of Don's Yahoo Group posts there before =)

First of all, I want to thank you for your dedication and contribution to this field of new energy technologies. Seeing these 4 new Don Smith videos is like a miracle, thanks so much for releasing them! I knew these VHS tapes existed but for some reason no one ever talked about them Your decision to share them is very much appreciated!

I guess you've already seen this audio recording of 2003 Inventor's Weekend conference that was also missing on the net for some reason

Regarding the 1994 Tesla conference, any chance you could upload an original (uncut) version to some file sharing website? including all the guff...

Keep up the great work and thanks again!

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Zed Varnett posted this 30 June 2018

VHS tapes

These 3 VHS tapes were also on sale thru zpfilms.com (Christopher Patton's website, the same guy who filmed Don's 1998 office interview with bonus part).

Video descriptions mention the following:

"In September of 1998, Don Smith gave an elated audience an unprecedented look at his latest "Over Unity" generator.  A series of coiled magnets, in parallel, separated by special material that is rotated by a micro D.C. motor is reminiscent of the John Ecklin Device. Don has devised a way of pulsing these magnets and according to him the energy potential is in the thousands of watts range."

"The Audience wasn't going to let Don walk away without explaining his new device, so, after a long debate he reluctantly gives up his secrets and explains how to construct your own magnetic coil device. The slide show from the first lecture is essential to understanding what the device does and how it looks when its completed."

I was looking for these tapes without a success...

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Chris posted this 30 June 2018

Hi and welcome Zed Varnett,

Our member MrBlobby actually put me on to these videos so we should thank him for his offers and sharing!

Copyright is something I agree with for new products, for products with any age I completely dissagree with, however, I am just a single man not able to change the rules.

We have a awesome bunch of people here, feel free to ask questions, create hreads as you wish. We have no Trolls here and we are very prous of our Troll Free Zone!

   Chris

 

P.S: I use YDownloader for YouTube Videos.  A fantastic Free product that never fails. This person needs a pat on the back!

This will allow you to download the below video and more.

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Vidura posted this 30 June 2018

Hi sampojoe. When i was viewing the Smith videos posted by Chris in the one titled coils are antennas Don has cleanly stated that the 220Mhz frequency applied to the primary of his generator and the secondary has a different resonant frequency. Note that he used to my knowledge always the single capacitor configuration on the primary, where the spark gap isolates the coil from the capacitor on one side, this has the effect that the primary will be oscillating at a high frequency, because the capacitance formed by the hv power supply is small and the second end of the coil is open after the spark.Here I have to add that actually in the moment of the spark there is a LC series oscillating with the Hv capacitor, but only for a very short time, the off time is much longer(depending on the input power) In this configuration you will actually have deal with two different frequencies on the primary. If for practical consideration and component limitations lower frequencys are desired, the double capacitor configuration used commonly by Tesla could be a better choice, and might give a more accurate resonant tank circuit. As the two capacitors couples directly to the primary the resonant frequency will be considerable lower and the state of the spark gap have no influence on the resonant frequency If you have a signal generator you can measure the resonant frequencies for a previous tuning, using simply a led on convenient points to check resonance.

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Zed Varnett posted this 01 July 2018

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the info on YDownloader, just what I needed And would definitely also like to thank MrBlobby for making it possible for others to see these gems. They are priceless, especially the 1994 video that provides more info on the ground resistor shunt and its connection to rising waveform - the thing that Don didn't talk about much on Yahoo Group and newer conference videos, only giving generic descriptions like "proper grounding", "adjustable grounding" etc.

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sampojoe posted this 02 July 2018

RE: Vidura, thanks as I hopefully will be trying to dissect your recommendations on a working circuit soon.  

Making some progress on the L2 construction.
The lower former is ~1/2" smaller

Slipping the coil over the frame
The CW coil completed CCW frame ready to go    

I've added a couple extra turns as I will connect where resonance is found, and did not want to be short.

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Chris posted this 02 July 2018

My Friends,

On my path to learn more and expand my thinking of how I perceive Energy Machines, i found another rather excellent replication:

 

Attached below is the PDF Document:

   Chris

 

Attached Files

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Chris posted this 02 July 2018

 

My Friends,

I would like to point out, the construction of a Neon Sign Transformer is almost exactly the same as Dons device featured on this thread:

 

 

 

Featured in Don Smiths Book and as he termed: "A Commercial Device" is this little beauty:

 

 

 

Which have the same internal construction as Dons previously shown device:

 

Ref: http://hotstreamer.deanostoybox.com/index.php?dir=ross%2Fprojects%2FAC_coil%2F

 

For what its worth, I believe no one else has bought these facts to the community's view? Has anyone ever investigated this before?

Don Smith did use Partnered Output Coils, he was a Pioneer in the field and was light years ahead. Don also gave credit to those before him, those that also used these very important concepts!

   Chris

Attached Files

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Zed Varnett posted this 04 July 2018

Hi Chris,

 

I noticed you took the Smith videos down, already downloaded them so np but I noticed Youtube user "Rick Friedrich" also uploaded these exact videos and taking credit for them.

Please check video description where he says:

"Thanks to Don Smith's "friend" Alex for making this recording available to me for the Don Smith Resonance Energy Crafting Systematic Index. I am processing all the details of these videos and indexing everything for this extensive resource"

Looks like a con artist...

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Chris posted this 04 July 2018

Hi Chris,

 

I noticed you took the Smith videos down, already downloaded them so np but I noticed Youtube user "Rick Friedrich" also uploaded these exact videos and taking credit for them.

Please check video description where he says:

"Thanks to Don Smith's "friend" Alex for making this recording available to me for the Don Smith Resonance Energy Crafting Systematic Index. I am processing all the details of these videos and indexing everything for this extensive resource"

Looks like a con artist...

 

Hey Zed Varnett

I did not take the videos down, someone smashed me with Copyright Claim:

 

 

I have a few friends @YouTube, they are looking into the validity of these claims wink

Copyfraud refers to false copyright claims by individuals or institutions with respect to content that is in the public domain. Such claims are wrongful, at least under U.S. and Australian copyright law, because material that is not copyrighted is free for all to use

   Chris

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sampojoe posted this 11 July 2018

L2 Construction Complete!

Getting close, studying layout options.    

 

 

 

Shooting for about 4000v at L2.  MOT is shown, output expected around 200v.   Second stepdown transformer shown to get it down to about 50v for planned inverter models.

 

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sampojoe posted this 11 July 2018

Quarter Wavelength

I have covered the Quarter Wavelength many times, but the reason one needs Quarter Wavelength is simply the configuration of the Coils. Each Partnered Output Coil is Quarter Wavelength, both together is Half Wavelength.

Hey Chris, reading back to collect my thoughts, this just hit me about your post 4 weeks back.  I sort of was following the proportions of Don's pictures, and in my design, I erroneously picked up that the antenna design of L2 was one full wavelength.  I am pretty sure that is where my L2 coil is at so far, with a wavelength calculated to be 36.65', gives 2 20-turn coils at 3.5" dia.  My L1 is 12.7 turns at 2.75", supposedly to operate at 26.8 Mhz.  My L1 is 1/4 the length of L2.  So trying to make a design that resembled the look of the pics for the "Early Device", I seem to have slipped into a disagreement with the transmitter-receiver antenna design recommendations.  But in my source document and I think in the PJK Smith book, I am pretty sure it states that L2 is 4 times the length of L1, i.e. 1 full wavelength.

Would you agree that a half-wavelength receiver would be the minimum size, while the extra full wavelength would only mean that it might receive twice the signal?

PS: Studying your previous posts and vids...

sampojoe posted this 11 July 2018

Stumped on switching inductance diodes

I wish to build an SG with a step down transformer to control output vs a voltage divider as shwn in this sketched diagram from my original source material.  Notice it shows the use of 6 diodes, 2 switching inductance diodes, I have assumed, as Chris has spoken of in this thread these, and a diode bridge.

 

 

  Here is the schematic of the "Early Model" with the 8kv cap bank in the PJK Smith book, but it only has the diode bridge:

 

My schematic with a step down is ignoring the "switching inductance diodes", and has moved the diode bridge onto the other side of  the stepdown transformer.

 

 

 

For reference, here is a schematic about the switching diodes from p60 in the Utkin document posted by Jagur about a month back.

 

Thoughts anyone?  Does a bridge rectifier perform the same function as the switching diodes?

Vidura posted this 11 July 2018

Sampojoe: In mi understanding the two diodes on the L2 are necessary as they force the current in one direction, see similarities with the mr preva experiments. If you put the stepdown in between the bridge rectifier will not perform this purpose.You can use a stepdown after the diodes anyway as flyback type with pulsed DC. A MOT will not work at the expected frequencies, it has to be a hi frequency core or aircor transformer.

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sampojoe posted this 11 July 2018

Vidura, thanks for the tip:

 A MOT will not work at the expected frequencies, it has to be a hi frequency core or aircore transformer.

Yes seems obvious now.  My estimated freq of operation is 26.8 MHz.  Rare bird of a stepdown transformer that would be.  The highest I can find are switching transformers operating below 1 MHz.  Placement of diodes in these diagrams is all over the map also, so to speak.

sampojoe posted this 24 July 2018

PJK book addresses stepdown transformer

In the PJK Don Smith book, a graphic is shown with a stepdown transformer.  It is shown here:

 

No capacitors are shown here either, and said to be optional for tuning.  I will attempt to shift to my calculated values for the caps and be attempting to find resonance with a diode or neon bulb also.  Notice the resistor, as it seems a requirement.  On p82, it states:

 

"This simplified circuit avoids the need for expensive capacitors and the constraints of their voltage ratings, and the need for electronic control of the output frequency. The wire length in the turns of coil "L2" still needs to be exactly four times the wire length of the turns in coil "L1", but there is only one component which needs to be introduced, and that is the resistor "R" placed across the primary winding of the step-down isolation transformer. This transformer is a laminated iron-core type (as is my MOT!), suitable for the low mains frequency, but the output from "L2" is at much higher frequency. It is possible to pull the frequency down to suit the step-down transformer by connecting the correct value of resistor "R" across the output transformer (or a coil and resistor, or a coil and a capacitor). The value of resistor needed can be predicted from the American Radio Relay League graph (shown as Fig.44 in Don's .pdf document which can be downloaded from the www.free-energy-info.com website).  The sixth edition of the Howard Sams book "Handbook of Electronics Tables andFormulas" (ISBN-10: 0672224690 or ISBN-13: 978-0672224690) has a table which goes down to 1 kHz and so does not need to be extended to reach the frequencies used here. The correct resistor value could also be found by experimentation. You will notice that an earthed dual spark gap has been placed across "L2" in order to make sure that the voltage levels always stay within the design range."

Regarding my MOT, it has a feature where the high voltage winding is terminated to the iron core and frame as a ground.  Given that the Center Taps on the air coil is ground, I have decided that is a bad feature and have disconnected the HV winding, letting it float.  I have hooked up the L1, L2 and MOT without any diodes.  I get some nice HV voltage into the HV MOT from L2 and can get a nice spark on a gapped connector, but without the R at least, I am not getting much voltage on the low voltage MOT winding.  You apparently will lose the higher frequency operation.

mrblobby posted this 09 August 2018

Only a small point, I won't mention his name. (You know why). But a certain other person has just posted a video. There is a mistake in the Don Smith schematic on the polarity of the input to the inverter.
(see the image below at section 15).
Polarities should be swapped (see additional image below).

 

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