Is There an Advantage in the Dyson Digital Motor?

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  • Last Post 08 April 2018
Idea1man posted this 05 April 2018

Can anyone figure out how the Dyson ultra high speed motor works? Is there a bypassing of back EMF?

[The "alien technology" is a joke.]

 

 

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Marathonman posted this 05 April 2018

OMG ! i couldn't stop laughing, you are so funny.

maybe it is a magnetically assisted reluctance motor or the week magnetic field blocks bemf. ??? 

Marathonman

 

Idea1man posted this 05 April 2018

LOL, yeah he's wild. No, that's not me, found it on Youtube.

That's about the Dyson vacuum company's advanced motor that turns up to 100,000 rpm. That circuit board, with capacitors etc, makes it an energy device rather than simply a motor. Would need to find the Patent to see how it works.

Here's two intelligent sounding Comments below the video:

The waveform is Class D mode B (pulses both high and low, thus having a "common mode" component). And I'm sure they are NdFeB magnets... The magnets are unplated, but passivated. Hobby motors use similar magnets with a similar surface treatment. The reason the back EMF voltage was low is because the number of turns on the coil is made low, to keep motor inductance low, to work well with the 30kHz switching waveform. What's so special about the motor is that there are not multiple "phases" as would commonly be the case with a typical brushless DC motor (for example 3 phases). Here there is only a single phase. The motor is started by the torque supplied by the coils, but pulling (initially) against the strong cogging torque.

 

It's called a 'switched reluctance' motor. They're very cool, but not alien technology. They create a very fast rotating magnetic field within the rotor using the external coils. The rotor contains a special arrangement of magnetically 'soft' and 'hard' (typically ferrite and transformer iron) materials that gets dragged around due to magnetic induction. This sets up eddy currents within the rotor which act like magnetic gear teeth. It is this gearing effect that allows the motors to reach such extremely high speeds. The fan is taken from the design of small turbofan jet engines, which been the subject of incredibly rigorous research because of their uses in transportation, energy conversion and war. Also amazing, but well researched.   Bob

Marathonman posted this 05 April 2018

Sounds like a very advanced squirrel cage motor that uses a carrier wave for the lower wave form. ? yes the low winding count all of the above would definitely be true.

seems it would really suck the amps in the process but maybe it kind of recycles it's energy in order to make the battery last longer.

also the wave form reminds me of some Bedini  devices that shorts the coil at peak five times to get outrageous voltage from a small voltage. with the initial wide pulse to get the motor moving then the pulse width are shortened for speed, as it is shorted it is collecting some of that to be reused in the system.

very interesting motor.

 

Marathonman

Chris posted this 05 April 2018

...

Wow what a Video!

The Circuitry, DC Electrolitic Capacitors, Mosfets, Diode Bridge and so on, and the Motor Cogging is a dead giveaway, it is a Brushless DC Pulse Motor!

Searching Dyson Motor Patents yeilds: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5041749

What is claimed is:

1. A brushless DC motor comprising: a rotor shaft; a rotor assembly mounted on said rotor shaft, said rotor assembly having a permanent magnet rotor and a plurality of sequentially stacked rotor laminations positioned between said rotor magnet and said rotor shaft, said permanent magnet rotor being magnetized with N number of rotor poles;

a stator assembly in magnetic flux relationship with said rotor assembly and including a plurality of sequentially stacked stator laminations, each said stator lamination having N number of stator poles wherein each said stator pole corresponds to a rotor pole and is separated from the rotor pole by a corresponding distance, each said stator pole being juxtaposed to said permanent magnet rotor such that each said stator pole is of a different polarity than said corresponding rotor pole with the corresponding distance between said corresponding stator and rotor poles forming an air gap, each said stator pole being slightly skewed with respect to each said corresponding rotor pole such that said air gap is asymmetrical; and

This guy realises at minute: @10:42 and says: "100% Man, 100% DC Brushless Motor"

Not sure if $500.00 was worth the money!

   Chris

Idea1man posted this 06 April 2018

Thanks for that Patent, Chris. That last sentence looks important; "air gap is asymmetrical". Asymmetrical comes up a lot in energy devices.

Bob

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Chris posted this 06 April 2018

Hey Bob, yes, its an idea, or a target variable that is becoming more common in literature today!

A Transformer is Symmetrical, meaning there is a One to One Energy Product Relationship minus Losses, via the Current, or Magnetomotive Force, this is the Hysteresis Curve, or Magnetising Current, that pushes the Core through the Hysteresis Curve.

In other words, as Currents do work, one against the other, Lenz's Law, and the Magnetisation in the Core changes, the Inductance changes, and more Current Flow's as result of the lower total Impedance.

An Asymmetrical Transformer, does not require the Current on the Input Increase as the Load is increased, it is not a Linear Relationship from input to output. In other words, switch on all the Lights on your Output and your Input see's no Load, it is unaffected!

It is worth noting, the Hysteresis Curve is not Symmetrical, but Transformers typically operate well with in the Linear part of the Curve. Something that one can ponder for some time as to what changes are occurring in the Asymmetrical Hysteresis Curve Regions.

In a Motor, it may refer to several things, Torque, or speed, or anything that is directly referred to.

   Chris

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Marathonman posted this 06 April 2018

Another interesting aspect is the neo's are covered with a carbon fiber sleeve to keep the neo's from flying apart at 110,000 RPM.

all the testing and simulating software are all in house. Mr Dyson leaves no stone unturned. the only thing is his factory uses no one as it is fully automated. but i guess taking the human equation out of the picture allows for precise craftmanship.

fantastic motors.

Marathonman

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Chris posted this 06 April 2018

Hey MM - This is correct, also Centrifugal Forces are very low due to the Circumference: C = 2πr and the Mass m

Being that the Circumference is as small as it is, the Time for one revolution would be significantly lowered and the Force much less.

   Chris

Marathonman posted this 06 April 2018

All i can say is it must be nice to have a 200 miilion dollar R&D facility. 

Marathonman

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Idea1man posted this 07 April 2018

This gets a bit off subject, but since there's interest about Dyson, he's spending $2 million Pounds to build electric cars and solid state batteries. This promises his radically improved ways, with a new motor and solid state batteries. He's already bought Sakti3 with their solid state battery, in 2015. This battery has a silicon cell, similar to a solar cell, in place of the liquid electrolyte. I wonder if his electric motor will be similar to the above "digital" motor.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115533_three-dyson-electric-cars-on-the-drawing-board-report

I owned an old used electric pickup truck, US Electricar, GM prototype. I came to the conclusion that everything is wrong with electric cars. I think I could improve it drastically. The batteries are in series to get to the higher voltage of the motor. This means that if one battery goes dead, the whole series stops. Wrong. Put the batteries in parallel, then step up the voltage with an inverter, or a CW voltage multiplier. This also makes the battery charger inexpensive at 12 volts. The high voltage chargers, for series batteries, cost $1000's. Second, use a Pulse Width Modulator to deliver a low duty time to the motor, multiplying the mileage. At highway speed, maybe 10% duty time would be enough, multiplying the mileage by 10 times. Third, I would try adding the Tesla Unipolar Dynamo driven by wind, to charge the batteries. My Neo magnet version is so lightweight, there wouldn't be much wind resistance. Also, realize there's a guaranteed 60-70 MPH wind at highway speeds.

[light bulb on] I just realized, at 110,000 RPM, the Dyson motor is perfect for driving a Unipolar Dynamo. The higher the RPM's, the higher the output. Here's an example of an ordinary unipolar dynamo, not the Tesla design, from an old Popular Science article. One 16" disk, rotating at 10,000 RPM's, guess what the output is? 400 amps at 25 volts, 10,000 watts. Is this enough energy for you, even with a motor running it, LOL? I'll see if I can post that article on my Tesla Unipolar Topic.

I find that my best ideas come when I am working on a subject completely different than what the answer applies to.

Bob

 

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