POC experiments and investigation

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

In response to the thread "How to build your own Abouth Unity Machine" I have started this research about POC in different configurations. The first setup is built on a 40mm EE ferrite core , I am trying different coils and windings , using the guidelines posted by Chris.

 

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

Here i show in this video a test where at a first look something very strange seems happened. But when I was looking for the cause I discovered that the appearent current against the diodes was the smoothing capacitors in parallel to the Leds

Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Excellent Vidura!

Well Done!

   Chris

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

Then I had rewound the transformer with a set of POC with 144 windings and a 1mm airgap in the middle of the core, the primary has 14 turns of 1mm diameter wire. Later I will post more details of construction.I got something interesting here.Like all the poc transformer are noisy, I did not pay to much attention to this, but there was a noise like sparking.after a few minutes it stopped and one half of the windings was very hot.actually there was an insulation breakdown. I rewound with tape between each layer , the noise was smoother then, but surprisingly smell of ozone.here the video:

Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Vidura,

Please can you paste your YouTube links on a new line. There is a bug in the software that required a new line.

I bet you're a happy man, you're on the way to amazing discoveries!

Thanks and great work.

   Chris

Jagau posted this 2 weeks ago

H Vidura
This is well done
thanks for sharing

Jagau

Wistiti posted this 2 weeks ago

Hi Vidura. Great job! Have you try to connect your POC like the first diagram Chris show?

I mean load between parallel POC? For me until now it's the best way it work. Also when you connect this way, try to reverse the diode. It seem there is a way it work better then the other...

Hope it will help! 😊

Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Hey Vidura,

Your first video is right and what you should see. Current equal and opposite, one negative.

Yes, flowing against the Diode.

Increasing the turns is perhaps not the best idea. You will get a better result with fewer turns. Because these machines work on the Interaction of Currents, we need to make sure the current is sufficient to do useful work.

High voltage can be detrimental to Current and its ability to do useful work.

   Chris

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

@all following,

I have tried all possible ways of configurations based on the schematics , parallel serial diodes  in both directions, swapping primary and secondaries. for the moment in the CW-CCW setup. Tests with CW-CW windings will follow.

Regarding the longitudinal resonance i found it by coincidence only, there is a node of the standing wave at the ends with the load , and a antinode at the centertap. when the scope is connected (be carful when replicating with a DSO,semiconductors might be damaged) the node swapped to the centertap, with less intensity. I will do some more research on this, when one side of the POC is sparking there are interesting effects to observe.

I guess that it could be very useful if we could combine the potential of the LMD wave node with the amplified current of the POCs.

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alohalaoha posted this 2 weeks ago

Hey Vidura

Nice experiments. Would you like to post your schematic? One picture tell more than 10 000 words.

I suggest you to first try with the coils wounded over cardboard or plastic tube with unequal number of turns (assymetric configuration). Winding ratio could be any for example 1.618:1. Current coil (CW) 1,618 x lenght of Voltage coil (CCW). Put each coil on separate independent plastic tube with sligtly bigger diameter than main spport tube so you could easy tune their position. Also put resistive load across both ends, but not lower than 1K. Put ferrite kolbasa inside support tube. I prefer exciation coil like Floyd Sweet have done, with 3rd additional coil. For the first time put 3rd coil coaxialy to POC coils (on the same axis). Also put 1K resistor between his ends and pump a square wave pulses on it. But be careful. Don't attach signal generator directly on 3rd coil because if you trigger POC effect, due to extreme magnetic resonance, voltage in your excitation coil may rise extremely, and some high flyback pulse could easily burn your signal generator and oscillograph. Attach signal generator output only via RF choke taken from old PC power supply and block one side of choke, that side which going to excitation coil with some quality HV capacitor for example german wima hv polypropylene capactor with voltage ratio minimum 1kV. On that way you will guard your signal generator from the burn failure.

Permeability of ferrite kolbasa should be chosen according to pulse frequency. For HF pulsing use low permeability for LF high permeability ferrites.

Use 1:100 2,5KV HV probes for monitoring the circit. One channel over POC load, other over excitation coil load.  

If you have some two U-I cores you can easily wound POC coils over 2 U halves.

https://www.mag-inc.com/Media/Magnetics/File-Library/Product%20Literature/Ferrite%20Literature/Magnetics-Ferrite-Catalog-2017.pdf?ext=.pdf

Good Luck and Happy Hunting.

Aloha

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Atti posted this 2 weeks ago

Vidura!

The question has been answered here:

What is the input power requirement?

What is the output power requirement?

 

I know it's boring that the question is too pompous. But it would give a point.

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Jagau posted this 2 weeks ago

A good way to avoid damaging the signal generator is to pulse through a mosfet.


The gate is completely isolated from the device under test (DUT),

others go with optocoupler but I prefer mosfet.

Jagau

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

Here is another test performed with the same setup, adding a capacitor and a 30w led as load. The Led is at low powerlevel, estimate around 1 w dissipation, the input also low power 20volts 25mA. I am driving the coil with a mosfetarray 600v 40A rated, when the load is connected the voltage stays at save levels for the scope. Without load it rises to much ,with 3%duty + I get breakdown of magnetic wire insulation. Here the next test:

 

For schematic and more details I will post soon , when I find a little bit time. Regards Vidura

alohalaoha posted this 2 weeks ago

How big is air gap between halves in your transformer ? Why don't try without him ?

Regards

Aloha

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Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Hey Vidura,

I feel, as I said before, thicker wire, less turns, lower frequency would be a better place to start.

I leave it up to you, as you see fit.

   Chris

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

Hey Chris, I already begun to make a new coilformer, also want to try the CW/CW configuration. But I found the longitudinal wave resonance on the ferrite worth to do some testing also.Regards Vidura.

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

How big is air gap between halves in your transformer ? Why don't try without him ?

Regards

Aloha

Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

Aloha , I have tried without aigap, the Resonant frequency decreases a lot, in output power no difference.

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

Here a detail about the winding configuration i am using, i have posted about this in the partnered output coils discussion thread.It is about the unique curl of the coils,when it is a single layer coil it is strait forward, but when a multilayer coil is wound left -right-left- right and so on it ends up being a mixture of CW and CCw layers. in the best case there is one curl predominant.in order to mantain the unique curl for multilayer coils i use this winding technique:

 

 

 

 

i wind all turns from outside towards the center and cross over again after each layer.

 

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Jagau posted this 2 weeks ago

Hello Vidura
Do you think that the same configuration of melnichenko will have another effect.
On one side the primary only and on the other side the 2 coils in buck mode isolated by the xfo airgap.
Is this just a suggestion?
Jagau

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

Here another testing of the POC transformer.I have rewound with stranded wires 23turns CW on both POC and 6turns on the Primary. I tested different configurations, and found the best results connecting like in the schematic shown in the video and adjusting the airgap to ~0.3mm. On the frequency is not much response, only the noise get some harmonics at certain points, but no impact on the performance. Regarding power measurements in and out: I dont have adequate equipment for measurement of this waveforms, and connecting a smothening capacitor and rectification of output change the operation drastically, so it don't make sense.Here the Video:

Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Hey Vidura,

Nice Work, thanks for sharing! 

Lots of noise there. Can you verify the Currents are 180 degrees out of phase, using the Right Hand Grip Rule.

   Chris

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