Solid state generator with opposing magnetic fields

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  • Last Post 04 August 2018
Vidura posted this 14 July 2018

Hello Team!

in this thread i will post an idea for an experiment with a solid state device which hopefully will make possible the development of a  self sustaining resonant generator. Anybody who wishes to participate  with bench work or theoretically is welcome to do so. The basic idea is to use opposed like magnetic poles which generate a stressfield and this is fluctuating alternatlly on on e or the other side of the secondary(outputcoil), very similar the Figuera device ,but in a pulsing manner not with linear movement. this is the schematic of the basic idea:

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Chris posted this 14 July 2018

Hey Vidura,

I believe with your ideas, youre on the right track and you have working provable concepts. I think this will be the same.

Thanks for sharing!

   Chris

Vidura posted this 14 July 2018

A brief description of the principles: For startup a signal with the resonant frequency is fed to the circuit, which begins oscillating from the capacitor thru the primary coils, which are on both sides of the core in two layers,one CW and one CCW wound, the windings have a different number of turns, but are symmetrical on both sides.The two diodes forces the currents to pass thru the coils in the manner that always the same like magnetic fields are opposed, one half cycle on the left side of the secondary and one on the right side, thus producing a unipolar stress field in an alternate pulsing manner.This polarizing the central core section with the feedback and the secondary coils inducing power im them. Of course there are needed many tests to define the convenient parameters for the setup, cores. windings, capacitance, frequency and so on.

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Vidura posted this 17 July 2018

Hello 

Today i had a little bit time to begin with this project. As a first step i made a "Toy model" on a ferrite bar to test some basic parameters. The setup looks like this:

there are two coil sections with 90 turns CCW on each side and two layers with 75 turns CW about them , a Signalgenerator is attached on the capacitor (2.2uF) , the diodes are shottky type 1n5822 . it was easy to bring it to resonate at about 3 kHz, the output is very low when the output coil is centred, when moved to the sides it increases. I guess the displacement of the stress field and its intensity is still too low , also I'll test some different  output coils.

Anyway i want to comment an interesting observation that i made. When the output coil is open circuit  the output is in fase or at 180° , depending on which side the central coil is moved. But when a considerable load is connected  the fase angel shifts to 90° or 270° on the other side. It looks as the CMMF is causing this fase shifting. 

As soon as i have time i'll post a video with the scope shots and more tests.

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Vidura posted this 17 July 2018

Another test I made was attaching two small neomagnets at the ends of the ferrite rod, with the two N poles facing to the centre, aligned with the fields of the coils. Then the resonant frequency rise to 15kHz, also the amplitude of the primary increased. The flux density shows to have a direct influence on the resonance frequency.

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Vidura posted this 17 July 2018

Hello, Here is the video from testing the setup.

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Vidura posted this 18 July 2018

The effect shown in this experiment regarding the fields i guess there can be seen the effects of the B field and E field of the device , which are at 90° axis and also  at 90° fase angle. The fase shifting  between primary and secondary seems to be effect of the CMMF

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Vidura posted this 18 July 2018

Reguarding the fase shifting in this experiment, as the primary circuit is in resonance it can be presumed that it is reactive power, and should take no energy from the source , only I2R losses , But the output has current and voltage in fase so there is real power.

as shown in the video using the field which is perpendicular to the core axis there is almost no effect on the primary oscillation, but when used a axial aligned outputcoil the oscillations are dampened.

If i said something wrong please correct me.

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Vince posted this 19 July 2018

This is very interesting Vidura.  I have a couple of questions. 

The scope shots are showing voltage I imagine.  If that is the case I would love to know the relative phase angles between the voltage and the current at both locations in the circuit.  The lamp is a resistance so the current and voltage sines are very likely in phase relative to each other.  The other is a little more complex due to the capacitor in the circuit and the voltage and current may well be in phase there also.  If that is true, you have achieved something that is quite remarkable.  

If the voltage and current are both in phase at the input end you have a power factor of 1.  And if, as it appears it might well be, that the load and primary side are  90° displaced relative to each other, as it appears they are, you are certainly onto something.

You deserve success Vidura.  No matter what the results of each experiment you undertake, you maintain extraordinary enthusiasm and attitude toward your goal and it is inspirational.

Vidura posted this 19 July 2018

Hi Vince, Yes as you said the voltage and current on the output are in fase, on the primary side i have not measured the fase angle still, i will try to check with a current transformer probe.

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Vince posted this 19 July 2018

Thank's Vidura.  Your circuit is pretty wild.  Trying to trace what is going on and when it is happening is quite challenging, at least for me.

Your scope shots have me curious.  If your supply current and voltage are in phase it becomes very very interesting indeed.  If not for the cap I would expect to see the voltage and current at 90° phase angle at the supply.  It may still be, but it would be good to know.

(correction) If it were 90° at the supply that would be a power factor of 0.  I would much prefer to see them in phase, and yet also see them both at 90° relative to the load.  Then something unusual is happening, which would be a good thing.

You get more done in a day Vidura then I manage in a week.

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Vidura posted this 19 July 2018

Here is the video with the input voltage and current measurement.

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Vidura posted this 19 July 2018

Thanks for your attention Vince, The video shows that input voltage and current are very closely aligned, at least when attaching the output coil in perpendicular position, and the fase angle between input and output is also close to 90°. Regarding your previous posts I would like to point out that if there will be a successful device it will be due to the exelent ambient , the great Team working together and sharing knowledge and experience. I personally feel that I have to learn quite a lot still, and if I find something it's maybeore intuition than knowledge.Anyway thanks for your kind words.

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Chris posted this 22 July 2018

Vidura,

EXCELLENT VERY Important work you have done! Thank You for sharing!

Everyone here needs to study your work they will gain a lot from your work!

   Chris

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Vince posted this 22 July 2018

fase angle between input and output is also close to 90°

Is there an increase in the input current, or voltage when you apply the load Vidura?  I am guessing not.  If my guess is correct, you have achieved something very important indeed.  As Chris has said, this is very important work.

If it is sand a man needs, and there is no sand to be found.  A hammer and a rock will provide it, if the man is persistent with his hammer.

 

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Vidura posted this 22 July 2018

Vince, When the coil is in axial direction ther isva increase on the input current, when the coils or inductor are perpendicular there is no reaction on the input.I noted a very small increase when attaching a core -inductor in perpendicular position, but independent if loaded or not.

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Vidura posted this 22 July 2018

When I was seeking about standing magnetic waves I found this in a series of tests related to the delayed lenz effect on the Jnaudin page. http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE20en.htm I think it's related to this thread and also many other projects which use cored coils , and some of the devices in the Lenz force free power generation thread.

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Vince posted this 22 July 2018

Excellent observation there Vidura.  I am quite certain it is responsible for a few things that are often explained away by other theories.  One that comes to mind is Thane Heinz's delayed Lenz effect, as was noted by Naudin.  I do believe that impedance in the coils also plays a role too.  I've seen the Barkhausen effect discussed at length by electrical engineers, but they were almost all retired, and it seemed to me that it usually takes retirement before an EE has the time, or the inclination to begin asking these types of questions.  I spent years on an electrical engineering forum for some hours every day a while back.  They were nazis when it came to accuracy in discussions and abhorred unsubstantiated claims, or even bad spelling.  However, they do know their business very well and deserve to be respected for that. I learned a lot there on that forum.

The role played by the phase relationship between current in the primary, and the secondary/s is largely overlooked in electrical engineering.  E engineers usually concentrate on power transfer at the cost of seeing other relationships.  They have been taught and trained to see things in a way that concentrates their attention on power transfer etc.  The term itself belies the notion that power in the secondary is independent of the primary field.  Physics teaches otherwise but often stays well away from the implications.

 

 

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Vince posted this 22 July 2018

I noted a very small increase when attaching a core -inductor in perpendicular position, but independent if loaded or not

That is interesting Vidura.  It would be nice to know why, though I can't imagine the answer is a simple one.  

The fact that there is no increase in supply required when a load is applied is also very interesting.

Nice work.

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Vidura posted this 23 July 2018

Hey Vince,

It seems that there are many things to be discovered still, but step be step with experiments and researches the vision is becoming clearer. At this point i guess that the magnetic current and wave propagation are cause of many of this effects. For example the fase shifting in Naudins experiments suggest that there has to be a quite slow propagation of the magnetic wave in iron cores for example, in order to get a 90° shift at 30mm from the exiter coil. Maybe it is related with the frequency capability of a given core material. It would be very interesting to test different core materials. 

And as you stated i also beleave that the coil itself plays an important rol too. I saw a video from Thane Heins where he explains the coils function in his regenerative acceleration theory (REGEN-X), where he declares the cause of the retarding to be the distributed capacitance of his coils. This is in my opinion not likely , as the distribute capacitance in a coil with 2.5ohm , in the best  case bifilar won't have that much capacity to cause a 90° fase shifting at a typical rotating speed of a generator. But it could have an influence in combination with the core.

In contrast in the case of a hi frequency air core transformer i can imagine that distribute capacitance plays a mayor rol ,and can certainly cause delays of the required magnitude.

Regarding the fase shifting in transformers I have to confess that i don't have much knowledge and experience in this field, but i would like to learn more about it.

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Chris posted this 23 July 2018

Hey Guys,

I think from an electrical point of view, we would have to agree, for the Phase Shift we see, there must be Electrical Conditions change in the Input Coil.

The Inductive Reactance must increase well beyond its current state to shift the Phase angle back to 90 degrees. We also must agree that the Input Coil is not using any Power at 90 Degrees, the Power is all Reactive Power.

I believe a logical answer to this set of conditions is there, I believe it is not all that complex.

Again Excellent Work Jagu! You lead the way on open research and others can only learn from you!

   Chris

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Vince posted this 24 July 2018

I could not agree more Chris.  In one of many  of Tesla's inventions. Tesla wound two iron wire cores one over the other.  One the primary, the other for the load.  The purpose was to delay the primaries magnetic field from entering the core of the secondary by 90°.  He stated in his patent that it did not matter which of the two cores was primary or otherwise.  The delay is also manifested on the reducing side of the sine, therefore there is no distortion in the output.  However, he also stated that he found no definitive formula whereby one could calculate the core volume ratio.  It has to be done by trial and error.  

Tesla also stated that it 'may' produce a load condition when there was no load, but I've not seen that occur personally.  

The "Gabriel" device caused quite a stir when it came onto the FE scene some years back, and is in fact this exact arrangement.

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Vince posted this 24 July 2018

Vidura.  I see that you must have flux  perpendicular to your core where you are locating the small black inductor.  I have been wondering what affect a core that is wrapped perpendicular to the windings of that core might have re feedback of the load.  I imagine such a coil would need to be wound as an array of overlapping coils, though that could be lack of imagination on my part.  If this is hard to visualize I'll try and make a drawing if you wish.

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Vidura posted this 25 July 2018

Hi Vince, I have already tried to connect five of this small inductors en series and put the string around the centre of the ferrite, the voltage increased, but power levels are small. I can imagine the coil you are suggesting, anyway I think I should make some improving in the primary field to get more field intensity in this perpendicular flux. I was thinking about using an iron core, and also make more turns and a greater difference between CW and CCW wound coils, in order to achieve more axial movement of the stress zone between two like poles.

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Vidura posted this 25 July 2018

There are a couple things I have tried, I'll make a short description.When I tried to connect the five small inductors to the primary capacitor the oscillations decreased, the timing was not in phase. Another test was to use a POC as secondary, in axial position over the centre of the ferrite.With this coil ther was an output at the middle ,where with the standard coil was a node. But also there was a reaction on the primary oscillations when loaded. I didn't have time to make pictures still, they will be posted later.

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Vidura posted this 30 July 2018

Today when i took the Ferrite rod setup to make another test  i realised that in the first test serie the wires on one side have been crossed over, and thus the circuit was not corresponding to the posted schematic. It was operating with only one set of opposing coils in bidirectional resonant oscillation, as the other set was blocked by two opposing diodes. When i changed the wires the behaviour of the setup changed also, there was a much lower input voltage first as if a lot of power is absorbed, and there was a superimposed hi frequency  on the waves, also there was a strong  DC component on the primary, due to a unbalance of the two winding sets.When i changed the capacitor for a 20 nF ceramic type i could get resonance near 450khz with a strong increase of amplitude. the testing is not yet concluded , soon I will post more information with images.

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Vidura posted this 31 July 2018

Here a video from the latest test of the ferrite rod setup. It keepe really puzzling that the phase angle between current and voltage in the primary tank circuit shows to be at 0° or 180°

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cd_sharp posted this 31 July 2018

Hey, Vidura! The video does not load for some reason.

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Vidura posted this 31 July 2018

Hey cd It has been a problem of the wesite, as the video was loading on YouTube .now it works.

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Vidura posted this 03 August 2018

In this test I have swapped the coil configuration in order to have two N poles facing in the center of the ferrite rod, also I wanted to check the primary-secondary phase angle again.

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Vidura posted this 04 August 2018

Hello, Here another test,this time without capacitor on the primary, I found some interesting scope readings regarding the timing.

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