Transformer fase shifting

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Vidura posted this 4 weeks ago

Hi everybody!

For better readability i start a new thread to continue the transformer tests  posted in the Lenz Force free power generation thread.

The goal is to get more information about the influence of windings, core materials and frequency on the fase shifting,

and the posibilities to delay the lenz effect in order to get a positive feedback of flux. 

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Vidura posted this 4 weeks ago

Here some results from a first test with the device used in the reduced reaction transformer test and a comparision with the same core and a standard secondary, the transformer is fed directly with a sinewave, without the resonant capacitor

this shot shows  inpur vs. output voltage with the  standard winding.

here with the RR.transformer winding

Input voltage and current in the RR. transformer.

and in the standard winding

 

 

the following shots shows input vs. output voltage with lower voltage level, you can see a different wave shape.

:

 

Jagau posted this 4 weeks ago

Thank you for sharing

Jagau

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Marathonman posted this 4 weeks ago

Vidura; It's Phase not fase.

Regards,

Marathonman

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Vidura posted this 4 weeks ago

Thank you for the correction, and sorry for my bad English.

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Vidura posted this 4 weeks ago

Due to my lack of knowledge on this topic i have performed a test with a standard secondary winding, if somebody can explain me i will appreciate. The following three scope readings are 1. open circuit, 2. loaded 3. short circuited.the upper traces are input  U & I

below the secondary U & I

 

Unloaded you can see the expected 90° shift  for reactive power, loaded there is an increase in current  and a phase shifting towards the Voltage peak, until here all seems logical, but when shorted the secondary the current peak goes back to the 90° shifted position-reactive power, so a shorted output would not take power from the source?? 

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Vidura posted this 4 weeks ago

In this test i have connected a common mode choke connected in opposed coils configuration en series with the primary coil,

here you can see an important increase of the impedance and thus rising of the input voltage.

(in order to get the same output i had to rise the input voltage)

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Vasile posted this 4 weeks ago

Due to my lack of knowledge on this topic i have performed a test with a standard secondary winding, if somebody can explain me i will appreciate. The following three scope readings are 1. open circuit, 2. loaded 3. short circuited.the upper traces are input  U & I

below the secondary U & I

 

Unloaded you can see the expected 90° shift  for reactive power, loaded there is an increase in current  and a phase shifting towards the Voltage peak, until here all seems logical, but when shorted the secondary the current peak goes back to the 90° shifted position-reactive power, so a shorted output would not take power from the source?? 

Hello Vidura,

Interesting subject and it's nice to see people experimenting. I tryied this road some time ago, but not that succesfull. The problem was that whenever I managed to phase the secondary current and voltage, there was always a balance with the primary.

Anyway...The 3 scenario looks the most promising in your case. Try putting a low resistor accross the secondary and measure. I don't know the power in your setup but I recommend something low, like 5W or 10W resistor. While checking the phases of current and voltage you also have the posibility to touch the resistor and feel if it gets hot, so you'll have double check of validity that you truly have power going thru.

All the best.

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Chris posted this 4 weeks ago

Hey Vasile,

Zero Degrees is Real Power, so on the Secondary ( s ) this is what we want.

However, on the Primary, we want 90 or more degrees, the Power In then becomes the Power Out, thus we use no Power on the Input. All the Input Power, and more, is returned back to the Source for reuse.

Vidura is exactly on the right path - Well done Vidura!

He has shown that the Input Phase angles can be retarded by adding Load, which is reverse to normal Transformers - VERY Important concepts to understand correctly!

Good to see you back, its been a while!

   Chris

Vidura posted this 4 weeks ago

Hi, If anyone have a explanation for the behaviour of the transformer when shorting the secondary there seems to be a phase angle of nearly 90° between primary current and voltage, these scope shots have been made with the standard secondary winding at 4khz. Does that actually mean that all power is returned to the source ,in the secondary is real power, as the shorted secondary becomes hot quickly? What about the fees of the electric companies for reactive power, it is said that they want to avoid harmonic distortion on the grid, or might it be that the meters don't work properly?

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Jagau posted this 4 weeks ago

hello Vidura
All your answers are in this patent US9230730B2 Bitroidal transformer.

And I could also read on the following topic:
The charge seen by the primary when placing a load on the secondary of a transformer

follow established rules.

Jagau

Vidura posted this 4 weeks ago

Thank you jagau I'll have a look on this info.

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Jagau posted this 4 weeks ago

thank you for sharing your experiences Vidura,

all experiences are important, I appreciate, I think we should not be afraid to ask questions, it's how we get better.


Have a good day


Jagau

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Chris posted this 3 weeks ago

Hey Guys,

 

Inductive Rractance: Definition

the opposition of inductance to alternating current, equal to the product of the angular frequency of the current times the self-inductance. Symbol: XL

Ref: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/inductive-reactance

 

Inductive Rractance is the "Generation" of E.M.F in the opposing direction in the same coil, this increases the "Resistance" of the Flow of Current in the Coil which is commonly known as B.E.M.F or Back EMF.

 

As the "Generation" of B.E.M.F increases, the Coil becomes more Inductive, or becomes more "Resistive" to the Change in Current. 

Inversely, the Coil is also susceptible to any and all external influences. If the Secondary Coils are "Generating" more E.M.F than is being supplied, and is at the right phase, then the Input Coil's Inductive Reactance will change, and can push the Phase Shift back.

 

Inductance

Inductance changes with the Magnetic Field. I have shown a really important experiment here. This shows that with an increasing magnetic Field, the Inductance decreases.

This is how the Paraformer works. The Change of Inductance over Time creates an E.M.F.

By making the Input appear highly Inductive at the right time, then the Change in the Output's Magnetic Field sends power back through the Input Coil.

   Chris 

 

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Vidura posted this 3 weeks ago

Hey Chris ,

when i was looking for info about paraformers i found this image:

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Vasile posted this 3 weeks ago

Hey Chris ,

when i was looking for info about paraformers i found this image:

Interesting info. So... if the flux coupling is zero what does transfer the energy?

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Vidura posted this 3 weeks ago

Hi Vasile Compare this info with the explanation that gives Marathon Man of the part G in the figueras device, the flux is constant ,the voltage is Induced by varying the inductance.

The paraformer is a particular type of transformer. It transfers the power from primary to secondary windings not by mutual inductance coupling but by a variation of a parameter in its magnetic circuit. First described by Wanlass, et al., 1968.

Assuming Faraday's law of induction, it is possible to obtain a voltage at the secondary winding terminals also thanks to a variation of the inductance, so that

d(flux)/dt=d(L*I)/dt

This can be accomplished by for example modulating the saturation of the core by means of an applied variable magnetic field. It works even if primary and secondary windings magnetic coupling is zero (when the fluxes are mutually orthogonal) (Burian 1972, p. 278).

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Vidura posted this 3 weeks ago

Regarding the paraformer there arised the question how the power is transferred if there is no inductive coupling between primary and secondary.Here I attach the us patent from Wanlass ltd. where the mecanism of the magnetic circuits is explained in detail.

Attached Files

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

I got somehow curious about the Paraformer, so I built a kind of replication. Here in this testing you can see the basic behaviour regarding the timing and BEMF. What I could not produce is the claimed effect of frequency doubling, maybe due to the core specifications and shape.

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Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Vidura, again excellent work!

An excellent example of how the Change of Current in Time is what one needs to observed.

   Chris

Marathonman posted this 2 weeks ago

quote;

"Interesting info. So... if the flux coupling is zero what does transfer the energy?"

The Electric field.

I have 400 hz core in my closet, maybe i should dust them off.

Regards,

Marathonman

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Vidura posted this 2 weeks ago

Hi MM. How is your knee, i hope you're cured. It is interesting this device, I used the ferrite pieces because I didn't have suitable iron cores as the original device uses. Without the capacitor there is no output at all, so my guess is that the oscillations in the secondary sets up the secondary flux, which is modulated by cyclic changing of the core parameters.There is also stated that a portion of cross over flux exists. Would be good to get some results from your 400hz core. Regards Vidura

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