Concepts of above unity devices

  • Last Post 18 November 2021
Vidura posted this 09 November 2021

In first place I want to give credit and express my gratitude to Sergei Deyna, a brilliant Researcher from Russia. He has made a huge number of experiments in diverse areas of physics, and published many papers from which I have used some parts for posting in the forums with his kind permission.In this thread we will have a look on some basic concepts and principles of AU devices. It is well known from Newtons theory about termodynamics, that energy can not be created or destroyed. But it can be transformed in different forms, and it can be collected for our purposes. So if we want to understand, or replicate, or design such a machine, in first place we have to ask two key questions: 1.) Where does the surplus energy come from? 2.)How does this happen, what are the involved physical principles?

Let's take as an example a well known and accepted AU machine, the heat pump. I think most of you know about this device, which is widely implemented in refrigerators, heating systems, or reversible air-conditioning devices which can operate in both directions. It is well known by engineers, that a modern heat pump can have a COP up to 6( for heating systems with liquid medium temperature exchanger's) . That means for one unit electric power , six units of thermal energy can be obtained. Refrigerators use the very same system, but the obtained heat energy is just wasted without using it. For the first question it is quite obvious that the extra energy comes from the termal background energy of the environment (air,water,earth ). The second question is also not very difficult if someone has some basic information about termodynamics. Anyway a detailed analysis will help us for better understanding and give some inspiration for other less known and accepted machines. We have two main parameters, temperature and pressure. Under normal circumstances they will have proportional relationship, any increase in pressure will rise the temperature and vice versa. This relates to a closed system, which does not interchange Energy with the environment, and is also called an adiabatic process. To get a non adiabatic process, which is of our interest, some specific conditions have to be present. Of course the temperature exchangers on the hot and cold side are required in hardware, as well as a closed circuit filled with a medium. It can be any gas in our case, but for better performance special refrigerant is used, which will experience a change of its state of aggregate from gas to liquid and back, which increases the heat transfer by orders of magnitude. Then we need to create a difference of pressure inside the circuit, usually a compressor will provide the propulsion of the medium, and a release valve will help to divide the circuit into two zones of different pressure. A heat exchanger will be placed in in each zone of pressure. This setup produces a shift of phase between pressure and temperature, and this is what is making the process non adiabatic, and allows to transfer heat energy from a lower temperature level to a higher one, making possible all the before mentioned practical implementations of this devices. In order to be able to draw analogy to electric machines, the thread will continue ...

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Vidura posted this 18 November 2021

Now that we observed some of the principles of quantum mechanics, we try to introduce this to our electricity device analogy. There are certainly many more things and details to explore, but for the moment let's see how this specific effect fits into our example. Let's introduce for point 8.) Excitement of the atoms (gradient) is the temperature. I would like to clarify some details. The electric resonator is obviously a conductor, and so the medium (electric charges) is provided by the conductive element. This is due to the presence of valence electrons. When an EMF is applied to the conductor the atoms become exited, provided the energy is sufficient to bring an electron to a higher orbit. In this process the atom of the conductor absorbs an energy quanta with the corresponding wavelength from the ENVIRONMENT, which is filled with an infinite number of quantas of all existing wavelengths. When the EMF diminishes, the atoms can't remain in the exited state, and return to there ground state, emitting quantas of the corresponding wavelength. The radiated quantas can be absorbed by conductive material nearby, provided that the same elements are present in its atomic structure,or that there is a matching energy step between it's electron orbits. This is the inverse effect, and an EMF will appear consequently on this object, and can be measured if an appropriate setup is chosen. In this context we also can find an explanation for Floyd Sweets statement about freeing more charges, and thus rising the dutyfactor of copper: If the energy levels reached the ionisation treshold, a huge number of charges will be made available. It is important to understand that the radiation of the quantas is neither of electric nor magnetic properties. It could be described better as localized vibrational energy packets.
Back to the example, we have found possible analogies for the three main parameters present in the thermoacoustic device, and if we think about the cycles we should be able to find the associated components for our electricity device. From the termodynamics we have learned, that it has to be mandatory a non adiabatic process that allows the energy exchange with the environment. And that this is practically implemented producing a phase shift between the temperature and the pressure. We should now be able to find the equivalent parts for the heat exchangers and the Regenerator for building our machines, and looking with a different point of view at the existing one's . With the correct design parameters we can construct a self- oscillating machine, which is able to perform work with the displacement of the medium, as a electric equivalent to the thermoacoustic motors, and this is in complete accordance with the laws of termodynamics. Note that the proposed model is a simplified one in order to understand the basics, in practice there are many interactions with other principles of physics and electric engineering present, and detailed analysis has to been made for a more complete description of all involved interactions, much like in thermoacoustic, where many years of study and experimentation made it possible to develop useful applications and achieve a detailed understanding. As this thread is about hypothesis or theory, some experiments to evaluate the presented ideas will be discussed in an other thread. Vidura.

Vidura posted this 15 November 2021

Almost half a century later in 1959 the laser was discovered, based on the very same principals of quantum mechanics.


In the following extract  we can find some most interesting details:


An electron in an atom can absorb energy from light (photons) or heat (phonons) only if there is a transition between energy levels that matches the energy carried by the photon or phonon. For light, this means that any given transition will only absorb one particular wavelength of light. Photons with the correct wavelength can cause an electron to jump from the lower to the higher energy level. The photon is consumed in this process.


When an electron is excited from one state to that at a higher energy level with energy difference ΔE, it will not stay that way forever. Eventually, a photon will be spontaneously created from the vacuum(?? To be discussed further) having energy ΔE . Conserving energy, the electron transitions to a lower energy level which is not occupied, with transitions to different levels having different time constants. This process is called "spontaneous emission". Spontaneous emission is a quantum-mechanical effect and a direct physical manifestation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The emitted photon has random direction, but its wavelength matches the absorption wavelength of the transition. This is the mechanism of fluorescence and thermal emission.


A photon with the correct wavelength to be absorbed by a transition can also cause an electron to drop from the higher to the lower level, emitting a new photon. The emitted photon exactly matches the original photon in wavelength, phase, and direction. This process is called stimulated emission.


The gain medium:


The gain medium is put into an excited state by an external source of energy. In most lasers this medium consists of a population of atoms which have been excited into such a state by means of an outside light source, or an electrical field which supplies energy for atoms to absorb and be transformed into their excited states.


The gain medium of a laser is normally a material of controlled purity, size, concentration, and shape, which amplifies the beam by the process of stimulated emission described above. This material can be of any state: gas, liquid, solid, or plasma. The gain medium absorbs pump energy, which raises some electrons into higher-energy ("excited") quantum states. Particles can interact with light by either absorbing or emitting photons. Emission can be spontaneous or stimulated. In the latter case, the photon is emitted in the same direction as the light that is passing by. When the number of particles in one excited state exceeds the number of particles in some lower-energy state, population inversion is achieved. In this state, the rate of stimulated emission is larger than the rate of absorption of light in the medium, and therefore the light is amplified. A system with this property is called an optical amplifier. When an optical amplifier is placed inside a resonant optical cavity, one obtains a laser.


At this point some might get some inspiration what we are looking for?

Ask yourself what have these processes in common, and how could this be associated with the thermodynamic processes before mentioned.

baerndorfer posted this 14 November 2021

the more i think about analogy to water...

water can change its state by introducing the right temperature.

we can make current travel outside the wire by introducing frequencies above 20kHz.


i like this thread


Vidura posted this 14 November 2021

Before we continue the thread I would like to make a statement: I do not claim to have discovered or invented anything new, only I want to bring bits and pieces together. All this thread relays on the work of many researchers, I try to select what is of interest for our purposes and consider eventually unconventional theories  for a more complete understanding and to make the AU devices more predictable.


Let's now think about an experiment, that was performed in 1914 by the German physicians James Franck and Gustav Hertz. The experiment consisted in a vacuum tube in which a small amount of mercury was evaporated.  Here some extracts out of Wikipedia, where you can find more information if you wish.

The Franck–Hertz experiment was the first electrical measurement to clearly show the quantum nature of atoms, They discovered that, when an electron collided with a mercury atom, it could lose only a specific quantity (4.9 electron volts) of its kinetic energy before flying away. This energy loss corresponds to decelerating the electron from a speed of about 1.3 million meters per second to zero.

 A faster electron does not decelerate completely after a collision, but loses precisely the same amount of its kinetic energy. Slower electrons merely bounce off mercury atoms without losing any significant speed or kinetic energy.



Elastic and inelastic collisions of electrons with mercury atoms. Electrons traveling slowly change direction after elastic collisions, but do not change their speed. Faster electrons lose most of their speed in inelastic collisions. The lost kinetic energy is deposited into the mercury atom. The atom subsequently emits light, and returns to its original state.

These experimental results proved to be consistent with the Bohr model for atoms that had been proposed the previous year by Niels Bohr. The Bohr model was a precursor of quantum mechanics  and of the electron shell model of atoms. Its key feature was that an electron inside an atom occupies one of the atom's "quantum energy levels". Before the collision, an electron inside the mercury atom occupies its lowest available energy level. After the collision, the electron inside occupies a higher energy level with 4.9 electron volts (eV) more energy. This means that the electron is more loosely bound to the mercury atom. There were no intermediate levels or possibilities in Bohr's quantum model. This feature was "revolutionary" because it was inconsistent with the expectation that an electron could be bound to an atoms nucleus by any amount of energy.

In a second paper presented in May 1914, Franck and Hertz reported on the light emission by the mercury atoms that had absorbed energy from collisions. They showed that the wavelength of this ultraviolet light corresponded exactly to the 4.9 eV of energy that the flying electron had lost.

Wavelengths of light emitted by a mercury vapor discharge and by a Franck–Hertz tube in operation at 10 V. The Franck–Hertz tube primarily emits light with a wavelength near 254 nanometres; the discharge emits light at many wavelengths. Based on the original 1914 figure.

The relationship of energy and wavelength had also been predicted by Bohr because he had followed the structure laid out by Hendrick Lorentz at the 1911 Solvay Congress. At Solvay, Hendrik Lorentz suggested after Einstein’s talk on quantum structure that the energy of a rotator be set equal to nhv. Therefore, Bohr had followed the instructions given in 1911 and copied the formula proposed by Lorentz and others into his 1913 atomic model. Lorentz had been correct. The quantization of the atoms matched his formula incorporated into the Bohr model. After a presentation of these results by Franck a few years later, Albert Einstein is said to have remarked, "It's so lovely it makes you cry."


The experiment with Neon:

In instructional laboratories, the Franck–Hertz experiment is often done using neon gas, which shows the onset of inelastic collisions with a visible orange glow in the vacuum tube, and which also is non-toxic, should the tube be broken. With mercury tubes, the model for elastic and inelastic collisions predicts that there should be narrow bands between the anode and the grid where the mercury emits light, but the light is ultraviolet and invisible. With neon, the Franck–Hertz voltage interval is 18.7 volts, and an orange glow appears near the grid when 18.7 volts is applied. This glow will move closer to the cathode with increasing accelerating potential, and indicates the locations where electrons have acquired the 18.7 eV required to excite a neon atom. At 37.4 volts two distinct glows will be visible: one midway between the cathode and grid, and one right at the accelerating grid. Higher potentials, spaced at 18.7 volt intervals, will result in additional glowing regions in the tube.


It should be remarked, that this experiment is one of the pillars of the modern quantum mechanics. If someone wants to dig a little bit deeper in this, there is a lot of information available on the internet. Of course the energy quants for all substances  and for different levels of excitement can be calculated with an equation, using the atomic number and the involved electron shells.

Of special interest for us might be the values for copper: 1.4 eV (excitation) or 7.62 eV (ionisation).

will continue soon

Vidura posted this 13 November 2021

There is a good reason to take the thermodynamic devices, and specially the thermoacoustic ones as examples , corresponding to the principles of resonant electric devices.  Because a detailed understanding of its working principles will allow us to build the exact equivalents of electrical machines.

So let's make a list of the required hardware and the involved parameters first.


  1. The Resonator
  2. The Medium
  3. A hot heat exchanger
  4. A cold heat exchanger
  5. The Regenerator or Stack



  1. Pressure
  2. Displacement of the medium

    (or it's gradient)

  1. Temperature


Then we will begin to associate this with our electric devices. Some of these are easy and obvious, others will require some more studies. I will not be able to give you all answers yet, but I will show you a crucial piece of the puzzle, this will require to delve a bit into another areas of physics. This will make you understand why such few people have succeeded in replications of this machines.

Let's start with the more simple of the equivalents.


  1. An Inductor is the Resonator
  2. Electric charges are the 


  1. ? Is the hot heat exchanger
  2. ? Is the cold heat exchanger
  3. ? Is the Regenerator
  4. EMF is the pressure (Remember N.Tesla was using the same term in electricity)
  5. Current is Displacement of the medium
  6. ? Is Temperature.


I will leaf some points with the question mark for the moment, and will continue in the next post about something , that will help us to discover the electric equivalent for temperature, as we would hardly find any hints for this in textbooks.


Before that I would like to point out two different manifestations of pressure: potential and kinetic.

In the below pictures it will be easy to understand the difference.

Both are exerting a force on the paddle wheel, which is performing work, but from different source conditions.

In electrical engineering the difference is also well known.

Vidura posted this 11 November 2021

If someone is interested in learning more about the thermoacoustic machines, I recommend to have a look at this site, the most convenient way is to translate into your language directly. There are some gif animations to show the processes. The second link is for a download of a pdf. about thermoacoustic motors and refrigerators by G.W. Swift from Los Alamos national laboratory.,2006%E2%80%932021%20%22%20Habr%20%22

In continuation we will begin to look for the analogies to the electric generators which are based on the principles of resonance for energy collection.

Vidura posted this 11 November 2021

The hydraulic RAM pump is an example for a self oscillating device, that uses a non compressible medium to collect energy from a low level source and shift it to a higher one, more suitable for our purposes. There are many different ways to get free energy. Some very easy to do, others much more complex. Why there are such few replications of the BTG devices from Ruslan, Akula, Kapanazde to name only a few? Are we dumb or ignorant that we are not able to replicate? I don't think so, first there are needed skills of various types to build them, and second, and this is the most important cause, we do not completely understand the theories and underlying principles. And this is the main purpose of this thread, to fill the gaps of knowledge. The reason for analysing the thermodynamic devices is that they will help to draw analogy to the electrical machines, and understand intuitively what's going on.(right brain hemisphere). Thinking about the inconvenience with certain areas of textbook physics, I decided to decline to open disputes against them, as this would only lead to unfruitful discussion with those who are not ready to abandon the obsolete ideas. Instead I will simply trying to show alternative ways of explanations, and try to fit all together in a broader view.

Chris posted this 11 November 2021

Interesting comment Vidura!

Hey Jagau, no in this case I don't think that it's AU, but as it is an example for a resonant non adiabatic process it is of interest. But if the position of the heat exchangers would be inverted, it would pump caloric energy from a lower temperature level to a higher one, and then it would be AU . An analogue is the hydraulic RAM pump.


I would like to interject, I have been using this analogy, The Hydraulic Ram Pump, since at least 2013! Sounds like you agree with my theories? Energy can Enter a System if the System allows and the Interactions in the System support Energy Transformations, which then, can easily be made to go above the Unity Boundary!

When a Theory proves Results can be obtained, it is a proof the Theory is heading in the right direction!

AU is not only possible, its extremely simple and cheap when one learns a few simple things!

With the right approach, isn't it amazing how one can mold a community! The correct details in a Scientific Fashion, and Change comes!.

Good thread, please continue!

Best Wishes,


Vidura posted this 10 November 2021

Hey Jagau, no in this case I don't think that it's AU, but as it is an example for a resonant non adiabatic process it is of interest. But if the position of the heat exchangers would be inverted, it would pump caloric energy from a lower temperature level to a higher one, and then it would be AU . An analogue is the hydraulic RAM pump.

Jagau posted this 10 November 2021

Hello Vidura

Interesting video which proves that with the energy of the flame we create a second form of energy.
The problem is whether he creates more than he gives?


Vidura posted this 10 November 2021

Now let's make an analysis of another thermodynamic device:

There is another way to create a heat pump without a compressor and refrigerant, in which the working fluid itself (for example, gas) becomes a source of temperature differences and, under certain conditions, is capable of performing mechanical work itself.

Since all thermal phenomena are reversible, then by supplying thermal energy to the machine, mechanical work can be obtained at the output. Such devices are usually called thermoacoustic motors.

The simplest thermoacoustic machine consists of a resonator in the form of a tube and a regenerator made of a porous material, on the sides of which a temperature difference is created. In the simplest case, the regenerator can be a burner inserted inside the resonator (in the form of a vertically mounted glass tube) or a heated metal porous mesh, as shown in the figure below. 

The optimal position of the flame is in the centre of the resonator, and the grid is approximately L / 4 distance from the lower end.

The heat engine or thermoacoustic machine is of special interest for us, as it will help us to understand and draw analogy to various types of electrical self-feeding devices, which uses the principles of resonance.



The theory of the effect under consideration was created by Rayleigh in 1878, in which he discovered the principle that currently underlies all thermoacoustic

And so, we will compare the principles of operation of the heat pump (generator) and the heat engine:


1) if heat is transferred to the gas at the moment of maximum rarefaction and/or heat is taken away at the moment of maximum compression , then this stimulates the transfer of heat energy.


The thermodynamic phenomenon underlying thermoacoustic is reversible.


The principle of operation of a heat engine :

2) if heat is transferred to the gas at the moment of maximum compression and / or heat is taken away at the moment of maximum rarefaction, then this stimulates gas oscillations.


The thermoacoustic device can be based on two modes of  resonant oscillations, on standing waves or on travelling waves.

Here  standing wave device with the graphs for displacement, pressure and temperature:

Below we can see a travelling wave device.

And in this video you can see a travelling wave resonator, which is used to produce electric energy from the vibrations of an attached magnet:

An interesting point is that a standing wave will be established in a half-wave resonator, when pressure and displacement will perform harmonic oscillations. But in addition to pressure and displacement, the working fluid in the resonator also changes the temperature according to a sinusoidal law, especially in the pressure antinodes. Depending on whether the ends of the resonator are open or closed, the pressure antinodes will be located either in the centre of the resonator or at its ends, respectively. The illustration below shows diagrams in which pressure antinodes are visible at the edges and in the centre.

In the following posts we will touch some aspects of textbook-physics, which we will have to put in doubt if we want to be able to make analogies to equivalent electric machines.



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The great Nikola Tesla:

Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by a power obtainable at any point of the universe. This idea is not novel. Men have been led to it long ago go by instinct or reason. It has been expressed in many ways, and in many places, in the history of old and new. We find it in the delightful myth of Antheus, who drives power from the earth; we find it among the subtle speculations of one of your splendid mathematicians, and in many hints and statements of thinkers of the present time. Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic? If static, our hopes are in vain; if kinetic - and this we know it is for certain - then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature.

Experiments With Alternate Currents Of High Potential And High Frequency (February 1892).