Finding the LL resonant frequency

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cd_sharp posted this 05 June 2018

Hi, everyone! As Chris suggested, I start this thread to try to reproduce the effects he obtained using this circuit:

My purpose is to find the conditions for this to happen:

where the top trace is input voltage, second trace is current through L2 and yellow is current through L1.

My setup is this:

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

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cd_sharp posted this 05 June 2018

Partnered coils are on the same bobbin, spaced by a few millimeters, one CW and the other CCW.

Both are 43.6 mH, 1 Ohm, 0.6 millimeters copper wire. Because the bobbin is custom made the 2 coils are not that symmetrical like the ones Chris has used:

I believe it's not important that the two coils to be strictly symmetrical since they have the same inductance, resistance, length and core. Chris, please let me know if I'm wrong!

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

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cd_sharp posted this 05 June 2018

Around 300 Hz I noticed the 2 phases that Chris talked about, the Storage and Decay on the current through L1 (yellow trace):

However, I did some fast sweeping all the way up to 150 KHz and I could see no phase drift. The current through L2 (blue trace) flows always during the Storage phase.

It could be that I'll need to sweep more carefully, using a step value of 0.01 Hz, but this requires a lot of time. Work in progress..

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

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cd_sharp posted this 05 June 2018

My mistake, I connected L2 the other way around. As soon as I switched it I start getting some interesting results:

And the interval is not narrow at all, it starts at about 180Hz input frequency.

First idea that comes to mind is that I should make both coils bigger to make the EM induction dominate.

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

Chris posted this 05 June 2018

Hey CD,

I wish I could give you 10 thumbs up! Fantastic Work!

To experiment here gives huge insight how Coils interact together! Some combinations work well, others not so well.

The sharp peaks seen in your post, appear to be where the Core is going into Saturation. Just thought I would point this out.

This is fantastic to see! I am so pleased that you are observing this very important phenomena! I guess you would agree that there is a massive amount of data to be learned from in these experiments?

Where the Current's are, in relation to the turns direction and placed where in Time ( t ) is a very beneficial in understanding this phenomena!. Keep experimenting and keep learning, there are great roads ahead!

Fantastic Work!

   Chris

P.S: Do you see a relation to Akula's 30 Watt Lantern here?

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Vidura posted this 06 June 2018

Hi CD Very important this experiments, I'm following further measurement. May I suggest to make a test with soft iron or niquel alloy as core material, to see influence of permeability.

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Chris posted this 06 June 2018

Hey Guys,

I should mention, when I have said Currents Equal and Opposite, be carefull of the Turns and the Timing of the Circuit.

Often what appears on the scope, may be completely different from what you may expect! As an example:

 

 

The above image has a 31% On time, seen partly on the Red Trace Zero Graticle Line, all the rest is off time. None of the Currents are inverted! 

Take special note of the very large Negative Current on the Yellow Trace! It almost appears as if the Current on the Yellow Trace is moving backward in Time ( t ).

These currents were only supplied from a 400 ma supply, the total on the scope is: 1152.7 Amperes. 

So take your time and study carefully!

   Chris

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cd_sharp posted this 06 June 2018

Hi, guys!

The sharp peaks seen in your post, appear to be where the Core is going into Saturation.

It's very good to know that.

Where the Current's are, in relation to the turns direction and placed where in Time ( t ) is a very beneficial in understanding this phenomena!

They follow the right-hand rule, but only on the Decay phase. That was my initial mistake.

Do you see a relation to Akula's 30 Watt Lantern here?

Yes. For instance, if I reduce the DTC until around 20%, the current through L2 keeps flowing. Very similar to the Akula lantern.

May I suggest to make a test with soft iron or niquel alloy as core material, to see influence of permeability

I'll try once I did a complete set of experiments. Thanks for the suggestion.

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

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cd_sharp posted this 06 June 2018

Is this obtained using the same exact circuit?

It almost appears as if the Current on the Yellow Trace is moving backward in Time ( t )

The so called "time-reversed wave" that nobody knew what it means except Bearden.

These currents were only supplied from a 400 ma supply, the total on the scope is: 1152.7 Amperes.

Awesome results. Thanks for sharing, Chris!

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

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Chris posted this 06 June 2018

Hey CD,

A slightly different Circuit, Akula style. I can see, that you can see whats going on here now!

I am so happy that others are picking up the ball and running!

For others following, LL is Inductive ( L ) Inductive ( L ), basically this is where the Partnered Output Coils are showing Magnetic Resonance.

Great Work CD! I am very pleased your'e getting good results!

   Chris

 

P.S: My Sharp Peaks, also i am saturated at this point.

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cd_sharp posted this 06 June 2018

Hi, guys! Before I add some turns to my coils I thought I play with some ferrite magnets. This is the best result so far:

This is without the magnet:

And this is with the magnet attached near coil L1:

So, the magnet lowers the current through L1 and raises the current through L2. DTC is 33.1%.

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

Chris posted this 06 June 2018

Hey CD,

Fantastic Post!

If I had shown my Scope Shot, with the Yellow Trace Inverted, as I probably should have, our Current Wave-forms would be the same.

I think at this point, we should ask ourselves: "What are the possible combinations that we can create an Excess of Electrical Energy?"

What Voltage on the Terminals, What Current on the Test Points ( TP ), what are the elementary requirements to bring about an Excess of Electrical Energy? A very Simple Question, but a reasonably Complex Answer.

CD, Your sharing for others here is invaluable, others will benefit greatly! Thank You very much for sharing your work!

@Others reading, Please Join in and share your efforts! This area of research is very valuable! Coil Interactions with a basic minimum set of existing requirements are very important to learn:

 

The world is about to change forever! Thanks again!

   Chris

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cd_sharp posted this 07 June 2018

Hi, Chris! I'll try to give my answers:

What are the possible combinations that we can create an Excess of Electrical Energy?

Anything that makes L2 a better source of Electrical Energy for L1 than the power supply is.

What Voltage on the Terminals, What Current on the Test Points ( TP ), what are the elementary requirements to bring about an Excess of Electrical Energy?

As low as possible from the power supply. I'd say there is a threshold input voltage and current for which the current through L2 starts replacing the need for the power supply. I'd say there are two concurrent EMFs and the stronger one wins and powers L1. So we need to make sure EMF induced by L2 in L1 is stronger than the voltage from the power supply. And EMF is nothing but a changing magnetic field over time near the wire turns..

I did not see it yet in my setup, but I tried lowering the input voltage from 10V (0.7 A) to about 4V (0.4A) and the current through L2 did not go down at all. Here is the scope shot:

Let me thank you, friend. With your effort I understood in a matter of weeks things that I didn't understand for years.

I'm still trying to get here:

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

Chris posted this 07 June 2018

Hey CD,

Your wave is perfect. What you see on the Yellow Trace is Current Ramp Up ( Storage ) and Ramp Down ( Decay ):

 

The reason you're seeing this, is because your Current Sensing Resistors are on the other side of your Input.

So you're seeing your Input as well as your Output. To resolve this and only see Output.

You can see Current Sensing Resistor R1 will not see the Input Current, only Output Current. This will give you the same Yellow Trace Waveform. Other than this, your Wave forms are perfect!

CD, you should be extremely proud of yourself! As you said, a lot is already learned. And the most important part!

Yes you're correct, your Coils have become a Battery! The Interactions between them are now Supplying Current in Excess of what was supplied to them! This is am amazing fact, something that 99% of Physicists could not explain!

 

Food for Thought:

We have Injected a Magnetic Field into a Core Material, this has Cost us the Magnetising Current only, we have Zero Input to Output Coupling, therefore our Input is not affected at all by Loading our Output.

However, as the Magnetic Field dissipates in the Core, Inductive Collapse, then this changing Magnetic Field in Time ( t ), constitutes as a Source of Changing Magnetic Field for Electromagnetic Induction. The same Rules apply in the Equation for Electromagnetic Induction.

This is something Floyd Sweet talked about, stating:

The number of turns per coil is determined by Faraday's law as quantized by Neumann. Stranded wire is used for ease of winding.

 

It is worth noting, the VTA had sufficient Cross Sectional Area and Turns ( 240 ) to support this statement!

We need to be open minded here, however. There are lots of ways to increase the E.M.F, some much easier than others. One being a very sharp Spike, from a Spark Gap or similar device.

I did say some months back how important these experiments were, and now you have done them I bet you would also say the same?

Great work CD! All readers can learn from your excellent work. Also it is completely necessary to do the Experiments as you simply can not fully understand by reading alone.

   Chris

 

P.S: Please Note, I have moved my reply's to Partnered Output Coils - Discussion, I do not wish to fill CD's Thread with content that should be elsewhere.

cd_sharp posted this 11 June 2018

Hi, everyone! Chris, you provided some exceptional information. This circuit:

gives this output:

So, you are right 100%, the current supplied to the bulb is "generated" by the coil L2. I'll take steps to continue this work. Many thanks, Chris!

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

Chris posted this 11 June 2018

Hey CD,

Fantastic Work!

You my friend now have an understanding that is well beyond most all Electrical Engineers on the Planet! Most all Electrical Engineers do not grasp or even understand how such a simple thing like a Moving Magnetic Field can even create a Current! It is taken for granted: ""We don't need to know because there is always a PSU or Battery we can use"

Energy must be "Generated", the correct term should be Pumped, and the Input need not be affected by Lenz's Law! 

However, there is always more to learn, but let the evidence speak for itself, nothing else! 

A 15 minute experiment that is a little more important than the simple old SG Motor isn't it!

Our future is going to be glorious! We truly are the ones we have been waiting for!

   Chris

 

P.S: You may find some interesting effects by Loading each Coil separately with separate Loads.

Chris posted this 12 June 2018

@CD and All,

I was helping with some Antenna Videos:

 

I cane across this video, it is excellent:

 

I hope this helps some!

   Chris

 

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cd_sharp posted this 12 June 2018

Hi, Chris! You said

You may find some interesting effects by Loading each Coil separately with separate Loads

Is this what you have in mind?

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

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Chris posted this 12 June 2018

Hi CD,

I meant completely separate Load Circuits:

This will show better what each Coil is doing individually. Of course one must keep the same polarity you already have found.

Please remember Don Smith was under all sorts of Financial agreements. I have none!  What Don said is not entirely correct! I have found the differences he talked about are not only Winding Direction but also Winding Connection based differences. Two things you need to know:

  1. Opposing Magnetic Fields produces Current
  2. Changing Magnetic Field produces Voltage

 

One can have Partnered Output Coils with 20% of 1 and 80% of 2 and still gain Energy! However, different Coil configurations are required!

 

   Chris

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cd_sharp posted this 14 June 2018

Hi, everyone!

I tried this circuit:

The setup looks like this:

Nevermind the single coil, it's for the next experiment.

The bulbs are 5W + 1.2 W + 1.2 W on each branch and the currents look like expected:

It draws 0.04A * 12V from the power supply.

However, if I reduce the load on BL2 ( I leave only one 1.2W bulb ), it draws 0.06A * 12V. So, coil L2 replaces a part of the current from the power supply.

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

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Chris posted this 14 June 2018

Hey CD,

Perhaps not the best place to post, but considering the topic, it may be of use.

Akula's 60 Watt Lantern Circuit:

 

 

This Circuit, directly relates to Andrey Melnichenko's work:

 

 

One could say its the same basic Circuit. As far as I know, Akula never once credited anyone for their contributions. Perhaps this is why he ended up where he is now. 

 

Remember, Akula's "Ferro-Resonance" is Magnetic Resonance and this is where Currents are Equal and Opposite as we saw in the Mr Preva Experiment.

For other readers, I would also like to post the Quote we shared prior:

Collect a simple converter 12-220, 24-220, 36-220 ..... well, someone as comfortable or who have any radio details.

Place the transformer inside the field created by the inductor from a simple induction circuit. for a weighty result, the field must have a force that can heat a metal object of a transducer that is equal in size to the transformer! That is, this observation from our own experience we take a piece of iron about the same size as our transformer on which the converter is assembled and put it in an inductor, if the metal heats up quickly enough well somewhere in 120 seconds it already becomes difficult to keep in hands all awakens to work

The difficulty is to wind the windings of the converter so that the current created by the induction field does not interfere with the operation of transistors or thyristors forming 220 volts 50 hertz. Here you come up with whatever you want want to shake the bifilar, you want to put an intermediate trance.

   Chris

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Vidura posted this 18 June 2018

Hello, when I was doing some tests on a transformer that I built in one occasion I replicate the circuit that Chris posted a couple of weeks ago. I used 12V square wave input and sweeping the frequency between 1 and10khz I get the waveforms you can see in this video. I have used two opposite coils with 37 turns one cw the other ccw. 20w 12v halogen bulb , two uf4005 diodes, 0.1 ohm resistors on probes. The average Input current is measured before a comon mode choke across a 1ohm resistor.Power supply 12.5v from battery.

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Chris posted this 18 June 2018

@Vidura - Excellent work my friend!

   Chris

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cd_sharp posted this 08 August 2018

Hi, guys! There is another question in my head about this circuit: why is the output voltage so low and how can we make it grow?

My guess is the voltage is low because we are using only the decay phase of the input current.

Can we do anything about it? Can we really light some usable load, like a 21 W bulb with this circuit?

The bigger bulb is a 21 W, the other one is 5 W. Here are the currents (L1 current is yellow, L2 current is blue, input voltage is magenta):

Now why do we see such a constant current on the blue trace?

The only thing I can think of is that it's because the power supply limits the current to about 2.2 amps in this case.

The setup is 32 turns L1 (the yellow wire), 176 turns L2 (the brown wire, hardly visible because it's wound under L1).

L2 wire is 4 times longer than the L1 wire.

The blue coil is disconnected, it's for another experiment. One more thing, the MOSFET is mounted on an active cooling system from an old laptop, otherwise I'm pretty sure I would have seen smoke laughing.

Please let me know your thoughts!

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

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Chris posted this 12 August 2018

@CD - Apologies, I have a big job on the go atm.

Voltage is a product of the Rate of Change of the Magnetic Field.

The Magnetic Field changes very slowly in these setups, so the Rate at which the Magnetic Field changes is slow, this is the Triangle or Sawtooth wave. A Linear fall in time.

To make the Voltage start off High, we must give it a good sharp pulse, or use Electromagnetic Induction to the best of our ability, which is CSA Magnetic Field and Turns.

Something one could try is a small delay switch on one of the Coils.

They then will slap together harder, inducing a higher Voltage. many ways can achieve this result.

   Chris

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AlteredUnity posted this 2 weeks ago

Was trying this experiment out the other day, it looks like my currents are inverted from yours, tho on my scope settings they are not. Yellow is L1, blue is L2. C1 is 4,600uF. At 3khz 36% duty cycle, second pic is 3.5khz with 40% duty cycle.

 

Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Hey AlteredUnity,

Excellent work! Thank You for Sharing!

The Scope Traces show us a Curve, indicating Inductive/Capacitive Discharge in your Coils. We need to aim for a Linear Decrease, Indication purely Resistive Discharge, as Resistance does not change with the Magnetic Field, its a Linear Decrease as Voltage Decreases.

This looks closer in your second Scope shot, like I have shown:

 

This Linearity is due to the Partnered Output Coils having no Reactance when in ideal operation, Current passes through the Coils as if there is no Inductance, but at the same time, we are not Saturated.

This same Linearity can be seen here:

 

This is when LL Resonance occurs, each Coil has Max B, I and V, Inductance of each Coil Vectorially Summs to Zero, not that Inductance is considered as a Vector in any current Science.

Yes EE's have a lot to learn if they wish to take the Journey of Investigation?

We have a very detailed guide: Builders Guide to Aboveunity Machines

I hope this helps?

Best Wishes,

   Chris

AlteredUnity posted this 2 weeks ago

Helps a great deal, thank you. Getting more acquainted with things to look for. Will go back over videos. The second scope shot I was drawing a great deal less current as well.

Alexelectronic posted this 2 weeks ago

¡Hola, chicos! Hay otra pregunta en mi cabeza sobre este circuito: ¿por qué el voltaje de salida es tan bajo y cómo podemos hacerlo crecer?

Mi suposición es que el voltaje es bajo porque estamos usando solo la fase de desintegración de la corriente de entrada.

¿Podemos hacer algo al respecto? ¿Podemos realmente encender alguna carga utilizable, como una bombilla de 21 W con este circuito?

La bombilla más grande es de 21 W, la otra es de 5 W. Aquí están las corrientes (la corriente L1 es amarilla, la corriente L2 es azul, el voltaje de entrada es magenta):

Ahora bien, ¿por qué vemos una corriente tan constante en el rastro azul?

Lo único que se me ocurre es que es porque la fuente de alimentación limita la corriente a unos 2,2 amperios en este caso.

La configuración es de 32 vueltas L1 (el cable amarillo), 176 vueltas L2 (el cable marrón, apenas visible porque está enrollado debajo de L1).

El cable L2 es 4 veces más largo que el cable L1.

La bobina azul está desconectada, es para otro experimento. Una cosa más, el MOSFET está montado en un sistema de enfriamiento activo desde una rientecomputadora portátil vieja, de lo contrario estoy bastante seguro de que habría visto humo.

¡Por favor, hágame saber sus pensamientos!

 

Hello greetings

Very good project, you have carried out, where you show us your progress, of these last results, I consult you, in terms of amount of current, how much current did you need to turn on the 21 w bulb, and how much current the 5 w, and how much is source supply

cd_sharp posted this 6 days ago

Hey, Alex

Sorry for the delay. I cannot remember, but that experiment was not AU. However, some good understanding can be gained from it.

Stay strong!

"It's just the knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other" (Steven Mark)

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