Electrical Energy

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I do NOT understand where Electrical Energy comes from.
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I do understand where Electrical Energy comes from.
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I think I know where Electrical Energy comes from.
6 Votes
Chris posted this 24 April 2017

Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by a power obtainable at any point of the universe. This idea is not novel. Men have been led to it long ago by instinct or reason; it has been expressed in many ways, and in many places, in the history of old and new. We find it in the delightful myth of Antheus, who derives power from the earth; we find it among the subtle speculations of one of your splendid mathematicians and in many hints and statements of thinkers of the present time. Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic? If static our hopes are in vain; if kinetic — and this we know it is, for certain — then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature. - Nikola Tesla "Experiments With Alternate Currents Of High Potential And High Frequency" (February 1892)

Many Generations have passed, and many generations have been successfully held back from the potential they deserve! Many reasons have held Humanity back, Greed, Dogma, Selfishness and the list goes on... However, this post is about Electrical Energy...

 

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Chris posted this 24 April 2017

Electrical Energy is Charge and the Movement of it, as was pointed out, the definition for Kinetic Energy is:

Energy which a body possesses by virtue of being in motion.

A simple piece of matter or mass, say a Copper Wire is full of Electrical Energy, Randomly Distributed Charge, or at least on our scale, Charged Particles are moving at huge velocity's on the Atomic Scale, all Randomly with no Uniformity with respect to each other.

An Electrical "Generator" works in such a fashion as to bring Uniformity to the Motion of these Charged Particles, Electrons, Ions and Protons.

An Insulated piece of Copper Wire can be thought of as a wave guide!

As the Magnetic Field moves perpendicular to the piece of Copper Wire, the Charges are separated, pushed to the ends of the piece of Copper wire like as is shown in the following Video:

 

The Magnetic Field is the Prime Mover, it is the Catalyst for the Separation of Charged Particles, and the Velocity of the Magnetic Field is the Work done.

All Systems have losses! All Systems will exhibit desire to move back to Equilibrium or absolute Zero. However, all Systems that have a close relationship to Inverse Square Law Forces, can be manipulated into a situation where the very Force that's they work on, can be used to Excite the System even further!

A Transformer is under Unity, the Losses vary from around 20% to 1%.

The Magnetic Field we pay for in Watts on the Input, becomes the Output less the Losses... But we can setup a situation where the Magnetic Field can be used to invoke Electromagnetic Induction many times more than once! What does this mean? A quote from an old hand:

The current and voltage initiating fields are in such a direction to either accelerate or decelerate the rate of flow of charges depending on the applied polarity and voltage amplitude.

 

As polarity may be maintained constant , that polarity of acceleration should be chosen so charges move at faster rates, lowering copper duty factor, and at the same time opening the gates wider so more coherent field entities may enter for the conversion process. It’s obvious; we have a self-regulating machine whose inherent magnetic properties will provide energy conversion conservation to the Nth degree.

I have read this passage many times and it gleems more beauty every time I read it!

It is for this reason we see many Transformer Variants coming forward as Over Unity Devices! Because with some modifications to a simple transformer, we can do exactly this, Invoke Electromagnetic Induction more than once! With this said, the more Current we draw the more Magnetic Field the transformer will have to carry and as a result, the more Charged Particles will be Separated from Source - Matter.

Chris posted this 24 April 2017

Today I watched a video I saw a long time ago, it had subtitles this time around - Please take the time to watch this video and study what is being said:

 

The Names used by Tariel Kapanadze, the information he gives and the credit to those before him he gives! This is where the Secret is! We all have had the answers for a long time!

Chris posted this 06 May 2017

Hi Everyone - I have continued this topic on my site: Electrical Energy - What is it?

If anyone would like to do the same, let me know!

   Chris

 

Chris posted this 07 May 2017

Hi Everyone,

I have written a new Article: Magnetic Modulation of Charged Particles

If you have any ideas, or thoughts, let me know!

   Chris

Zanzal posted this 24 May 2017

Hey Chris,

I once thought there was this mysterious type of electricity called "static" electricity. I asked a friend who was knowledgeable in electrical engineering and electronics what they thought about it and they did not think static electricity was the same as normal electricity.

So I performed an experiment to test this theory. Taking cheap little Wimshurst toy I purchased, I removed the HV capacitors and attached a ceramic cap to each terminal with clip leads and added two LEDs in opposite directions connecting each of the two capacitors together. Essentially instead of a HV load like an x-ray tube and HV caps, I used a conventional load with conventional caps. The LEDs would flash a bit as I turned the crank. In hindsight the results are not so mysterious, but it is interesting looking back how little I understood. To think I might still spout off some nonsense about static electricity being special had I not taken the time to test my idea before.

Hopefully my tale here gives you some ideas. I have a small obsession with electrostatic induction and I have often wondered if our abandoning this technology was premature. There is no Lenz law to fight in the world of electrostatic induction.

 

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Chris posted this 27 May 2017

Welcome Zanzal - Thanks for sharing your experiment. In my understanding of Electro-Statics, if a Static Difference in Charge is obtained by rubbing a Plastic Comb over a Woollen Jumper, then by definition we have a Static Difference in Charge:

electrostatic charge - the electric charge at rest on the surface of an insulated body (which establishes and adjacent electrostatic field)


↔electric charge, charge - the quantity of unbalanced electricity in a body (either positive or negative) and construed as an excess or deficiency of electrons; "the battery needed a fresh charge"

An understanding of Electro-Statics is sometimes a fine line we can cross depending on view point. One quote I know of:

William J Hooper also talked about a similar thing. I think Electro-Statics is important, we don't fully understand it. There are areas of interest. I will leave you with another quote:

 It is critical, the very simple process of Charge Separation. T.H. Moray wrote about it, all inventors have, Clemente Figuera, it was the Primary Concern for them! It has been studied in depth by many, but not understood by many more!

   Chris

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Chris posted this 28 May 2017

My Friend and Member, Wistiti has shared the attached document. It is a very good read! Very good!

Thank You Wistiti!

   Chris

Attached Files

Chris posted this 16 August 2017

I would really like to remind everyone, Electromagnetic Induction...

Very simple, a Magnetic Field moving at 90 Degrees to a Wire "Generates" Electrical Energy!

Transformer Induction, the Magnetic A Vector Potential, moving on a Transformer Core, "Generates" Electrical Energy!

We want to capitalise on  "Generating" Electrical Energy!

It can be done more than Once in a System, Asymmetrical Induction Cycles! Remember what we learned in the Parametric Excitations of Electric Oscillations Thread?

We don't want to mess with the Red, Electric Part, we loose Energy there, we want to "Generate" more Energy in the Green, Magnetic section, where we can act like a Generator, when we don't affect the Input.

Remember the Mr Preva Experiment, Electromagnetic Induction I its primary Function. It "Generates" Excess Current! But it has to be in Resonance!

Please always think Electromagnetic Induction, Time Rate of Change of the Magnetic Field!

   Chris

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Vasile posted this 16 August 2017

Even though I do not 100% resonate with your last post what brings to mind is the mechanism of a coil moving past a magnet.When the coil is shorcircuited and aproaching the magnet, a magnetic field that opposes the magnet will build up in the coil and when the coil leaves the magnet a magnetic field that atracts to the magnet will build in the coil.So we can profit from this observations?How?

 

 

 

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Chris posted this 16 August 2017

Hey Vasile - Yes, "shortcircuited" or Loaded, Output, this is an Equal and Opposite effect - Lenz's Law.

As you point out, upon leaving the pole piece, the sine reverses, Opposing the Action trying to pull the Rotor back in.

 

Note: my above diagram is in a LC Resonant System, there are two areas, two different forms of Energy doing Work at different times.

 

 

 

 

 

All this is very well known. It is this we need to utilise! Like I said, we can have Electromagnetic Indction occurring more than once is a System!

   Chris

Chris posted this 16 August 2017

The Transformer is not a Flux Cutting device, its a Flux Linking device. George I. Cohn details this in his excellent paper.

The Transformer Iron, contains all the Flux, less than 1% of Flux leakage but yet the Transformer can be very efficient. 85-96%

When Windings are wound one on top of the other, this is called: Unity Coupling

 Absolutely no Flux from the Primary Cuts the Secondary. Yet we still need the normal requirements of Electromagnetic Induction:

  • The Magnetic Field.
  • Time Rate of Change of the Magnetic Field.
  • Cross Sectional Area.
  • Turns

Magnetic Flux ( φ ) is completely contained in the core, less than 1% leaks. We have another component left behind, this component is ( A )  and is called the Magnetic A Vector Potential. See attached pdf.

This is entirely an Electric Field, changing in Time with the Magnetic Component ( φ ). This is very well known in Transformer Theory today and not disputed by any Academics:

 

Notice that A = ∞

Where have we seen this before?

Electrometer readings were always close to parabolic, thus indicating that the source was of infinite capacity.

 

So, if one were to take a reference frame, a slide of Time, freeze it, and one could see the A Vector Potential as a Blue Haze, then one might be able to see something like this:

 

Where the Blue Donut shapes are the Magnetic A Vector Potential, Changing in Time and in Size, moving with a direction as the Bloch Wall Grows and Decays with Time. This I have shown in my Video:

 

Why do we see this Shape?

Electric Current is not well understood by many. Some have got it right and there are many experiments that can prove this. One being the Mr Preva Experiment and what Floyd Sweet said:

In the specific case of positive charges moving to the right and negative charges to the left, the effect of both actions is positive charge moving to the right.

Current to the right is: I = da+ / dt + da- / dt.


Negative electrons flowing to the left contribute to the current flowing to the right.

We know for sure this is true! Conventional Electric Current is made up of two total actions, Positive charges moving one way and negative Charges moving the other way, thus meeting in the Middle:

Conventional Current:

 
Ref: http://33elec.blogspot.com.au/

 

If you read the Ed Leadskalnin works, he said the same thing, but his description was Magnetic Poles South and North out each ends of the Battery.

Experiment: Take a Resistor, short it across a Battery, it will always burn out in the Middle! Take a small wire, do the same, it will burn out in the Middle, always!

 
Always hotter in the middle:
 

Yes other factors do also play a role, heat distribution and so on... But this concept is provable on the bench every day of the week.

So, The Magnetic Field, the way we Construct it, is made up from Positive Charges moving to the Right and at the same Time, Negative Charges moving to the Left! This is the reason we do not see Mono Poles.

This is the reason we have a Bloch Wall.

Effectively, the Magnetic Field as we see it today is made up of two Mono-Poles, back to Back. We all know what happens when we force two poles together.

The Magnetic Field, Changing in Time is a Living Breathing thing. Its Matter being Stimulated by the Magnetic Field.

This Electromagnetic Induction is called Transformer Induction, or Flux Linking Law, because there is no Cutting of Flux. The Flux is changing inside the Coils, but no Flux makes contact with the Coils. Think about it, what is it that creates the Magnetic Field? Un-Paired Electron Spins, what's an Electron? Charge... So What's Flux? A wake of Spinning Electric Field, the Magnetic A Vector Potential, It all makes perfect sence when thought about properly.

I hope we can all see that there is no Magic here, this is standard Science made a little more interesting by my descriptive post.

   Chris

 

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Vasile posted this 17 August 2017

Thank you for a well documented reply.I have a suggestion regarding your first 2 videos,the ones with the wind turbine generator.Try putting a capacitor across your output winding and a resistive load,and run the rotor at a rpm so that the frequency induced in the coil is the resonant frequency of your now coil-capacitor combination.It is very possible that the drag will be lower and you will have a more efficient generator.

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Zanzal posted this 22 August 2017

So, after some consideration. I am guessing that Electricity comes from the A Vector potential, and overunity in transformers is the amplification of A Vector potential. A result of breaking the symmetry between the Flux and the A Vector.

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Chris posted this 22 August 2017

So, after some consideration. I am guessing that Electricity comes from the A Vector potential, and overunity in transformers is the amplification of A Vector potential. A result of breaking the symmetry between the Flux and the A Vector.

Hi Zanzal - The Magnetic A Vector Potential is inherently Electric in Nature. But perhaps not the Source of Electricity.

The Source of this Electric Field, is Moving Charge, Charged Particles, Atomic/Subatomic in Nature, moving from the Outer Orbitals, down the Wire or within the bounds of the Charges area of motion. E.G: Copper Pipe when a Magnet passes through the middle of it. Eddy Currents.

We know that Charge, or Electrons if you like can travel in two forms:

  • Wave
  • Particle

 

Note the term, "A Wave of Potentials"

Above Unity, well I think SReason said it best:

A sense of confirming the elementary laws of physics? Any schoolboy knows that the electromagnetic field performs work in both the transformer and the generator, but there are conditions under which the field can not do the work, then some actions are taken that it can perform work. An example of this is a magnet that has a field, but if we place the coil on it, then we do not get the EMF, so that generation would take place to move the magnet. Do I have to write about such elementary things?

 

When the direction of one Magnetic Field is one way, the direction of another is another way and the source is such that it is only ever one way at the same time, then the Magnetic Fields of the Secondaries cannot do work back on the Primary. Three is a Magic Number.

The Magnetic Vectors are: BPrimary + BSecondary + -BSecondary = BPrimary

No Work is done on the Source Magnetic Field B. In a normal Transformer, we see:

BSecondary + -BSecondary = 0

   Chris

Zanzal posted this 22 August 2017

The Source of this Electric Field, is Moving Charge, Charged Particles, Atomic/Subatomic in Nature, moving from the Outer Orbitals, down the Wire or within the bounds of the Charges area of motion.

 

Charges in motion does seem like the proper definition of what electricity is.

IMO electric field is charge imbalance though and not a result of moving charge but rather the result of charges that have moved so as to become out of balance. The electric field is what allows electricity to propagate through dielectrics. It would be analogous to gravity which arises from the accumulation of mass in a single spot, likewise an accumulation of negative charges would be a negative electric field and an accumulation of positively charged matter a positive electric field. The field need not move though and it definitely can produce work by causing charges to move either toward or away. Hmm... Lots to think about..

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Chris posted this 22 August 2017

The Source of this Electric Field, is Moving Charge, Charged Particles, Atomic/Subatomic in Nature, moving from the Outer Orbitals, down the Wire or within the bounds of the Charges area of motion.

 

Charges in motion does seem like the proper definition of what electricity is.

IMO electric field is charge imbalance though and not a result of moving charge but rather the result of charges that have moved so as to become out of balance. The electric field is what allows electricity to propagate through dielectrics. It would be analogous to gravity which arises from the accumulation of mass in a single spot, likewise an accumulation of negative charges would be a negative electric field and an accumulation of positively charged matter a positive electric field. The field need not move though and it definitely can produce work by causing charges to move either toward or away. Hmm... Lots to think about..

Hi Zanzal - Yes exactly: A Di Pole

A Di Pole is two Poles, one Positive Charge, one Negative Charge. Each Pole separated by a finite distance:

This is why we have to "Generate" Energy, it is actually Separated, Charge is Separated, Charge Separation, pushing Positive Charge to one Terminal and Negative Charge to another Terminal.

Yes you're right!

   Chris

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alohalaoha posted this 23 August 2017

So, after some consideration. I am guessing that Electricity comes from the A Vector potential, and overunity in transformers is the amplification of A Vector potential. A result of breaking the symmetry between the Flux and the A Vector.

Hi Zanzal

I think you are very right about the question where Electricity comes from And of course overunity as result of multiplication of Vector potentials A. Every charged particle has own Vector potential A, even charges in rest, in respect to other charges, but only the moving particles induce Electricity as a dense stream of paricles flow and always as result of broken Vector potential symmetry.

Remember only the mass can do a work or precisely mass in motion eaither it accelerate, deccelerate or has a uniform speed and that mass in motion is property known as force. This work for both non inertial and inertial masses. Inertial in sence, that mass si sensible to gravity field interaction.

On similar way every charged partcile has mass, but also has own Vector potential A and moving own Vector potential A through the space filled with other charged particles with their own personal Vector potentials make complex interactions either in direction of balanced Net Field Vector Potential, or broken Net Field Vector potential symmetry - Vectors subtraction.

In any case we have deal either with Electric matter, or with Magnetic matter which is Di-Pole in nature. It means two Etheric substances make one magnetic particle.

What is interesting both magnetic particles or poles like people called them has great affinity to attract electric matter.

The whole problem is in that official Cabal Relativists believe that in nature exist four types of forces or interactions

• Strong (nuclear);

• Electromagnetic;

• Weak (β-decay)

• Gravitational.

They are simply so mind obscured that they still didn't understood what a field is ?, and what structure of field is ?

But happily for all, the Mother Nature think simplest.

We joined here at Chris Sykes forum, know that there are exist only two types of forces in nature: Attraction and Repulsion.

Attraction - always between

1.) Opposite polarity poles of Magnet and

2. ) between magnet (any polarity) and an Electric charge.

Repulsion - always between

1.) Electric charges and unifom Poles of the Magnet.

What we know about the charges ?

Electric charges always repel each other

This pull us to very health logic conclusion that there only exist negative charges. It for sure would be barrel of powder if there exist second one kind with opposite polarity. Great Annihllation in every moment would be.

About all aspects about which one sign charge i.e. negative charge interactions, could be simply explanied as density separations of clusters of joined negative charged particles.

What we know about the interactions or lines of forces ?

Lines of forces are also matter. Also kind of substance. Interaction is carried out through the "lines of force" - flagella from Magnetic matter and flagella from Electric matter or substance, that is, it has always a contact or spot character.

Magnetic particles or Magnetic substance as the main structural basis of the formation of an atom or any fragments of them allow complex formation of particles with any complex combination of them:

Mother Nature always decreed simplest. The carrier of electro-magnetic forces is the substance from which the inner shell of electron consists.

And for end a few words in support of this.

It's well known about x-ray radiation. It is always obtained by decelerating an electron beam about an anticathode metal. This is a direct experiment - the electrons were suddenly braked, real huge inertia forces acting on the electron developed, and an electro-magnetic field was obtained from these factors. And so everywhere, where electromagnetic fields are created.

I hope i give you a much clear view of background of Electricity.


PS. Read about very interesting experiment - THE MOVING ELECTRIC CHARGE EXPERIMENT

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Reg

Aloha

Attached Files

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Zanzal posted this 24 August 2017

Hello Aloha, The author of the experiment did not account for movement within the earth's magnetic field. Unrelated, the author's "laws of EED" are false. If the observer is moving and the electric field is stationary, the observer will detect a magnetic field on his or her gauss meter. I am not saying any other ideas of his are wrong, but I don't think we should place a high trust in his ideas. 

I know you believe in ether so don't misunderstand. I am not saying that I know it doesn't exist, But I do suspect that if we find it, along with it we shall find all the posts that vanish from the wonderful MVCForum software...

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alohalaoha posted this 24 August 2017

Hello Zanzal,

I dont belive in ether and upper realms of reality, i know they exist. Story is long but, comlete world of mind of every human being, also his psychic world, world of imagination etc. must comes from somewhere, for sure not from empty space. Only one defference between me those who belive and search ether is i know that ether exist in a matter, and i am searching it there, while they search it in an empty space.

I am thinking logicaly, could not any things comes from NOTHING. It is ABSURD, For every after-effect must exist a CAUSE.. In mankind case that primary cause of all after-effects is our primary "sun" SOLAR which is located in center of our egg-shaped planet and totaly shielded from us, by many spheres of MATRI-X. Spheres are multidimensional just like the MATRI-X is.

On the same way every human being is also shielded by multidimensional MATRI-X spheres. They were known as "soul" which is also MATRI-X artificial construction.

If our planet had been "teraformed" before 7500 years ago, when we lost global battle for our planet, we and all living beings had been "soulformed"

Our is only CONSCIOUSNESS , which is in fact our COMPLETE BEING, OUR FRACTAL SPIRIT. We are like small fractal copies of our SOLAR star which is fractal GIGA BEING.

And for the end, i know we are all, including our mother planet, with our central "Sun" SOLAR , trapped in multidimensional MATRI-X, and only way out is our AWAKENING and RECOLLECTION OF MEMORY.

Our friend Chris Sykes has right 100500%

We and our planet with our native SOLAR star, are all at the end of an age, if we don't make global changes now, get out of MATRI-X jail, by personal AWAKENING and RECOLLECTION OF MEMORY, then we might just not get another chance.

HOW WE MAKE A DRAW OF OUR REALM , IT WILL BE EXACTLY.

something worth to be watched

Аrmillary sphere - prompting from the MATRI-X

reg

Aloha

 

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Chris posted this 04 November 2017

We got a bit off topic there, however, a Video, to help with the Goal at hand:

 

With a little work, a lot of understanding, the prize is right in front of us.

   Chris

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Chris posted this 06 November 2017

Another Video to try to help in the steps forward:

 

I hope this more easy to follow?

   Chris

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Chris posted this 3 weeks ago

This post is in response to posts on the: Bucking coils and Joule Thief

What's the one, most common, aspect of all Energy Machines:

  • The Production of Voltage (E.M.F) and Current (I) = Joules per second (Watts)

So, goal number one should be:

  • Obtain a detailed understanding of how to produce these two quantities.

Science does have a reasonably good grasp on Electromagnetic Induction. 

 

This understanding is incomplete, there is more! How to amplify the Voltage and Current to see an increase in Joules per second (Watts), is a case of treating each quantity as a separate problem:

Voltage:

  • Step Up Transformers Amplify Voltage and it is at no Cost, it is considered a Work Free process. 

Current:

  • The Mr Preva Experiment Amplifies Current. There is a requirement however, the currents must be 180 degrees out of phase, opposite, Magnetic resonance is required!

Now all that needs be done is combine these two solutions and we see an increase in Voltage and also in Current! This is, as you know, a total gain in Watts, because Watts is the summation of Voltage and Current! Power P = Voltage (V) x Current (I). 

 

   Chris

Chris posted this 3 weeks ago

This post is in reply to the post on the: Bucking coils and Joule Thief Thread.

A length of Copper Wire - an intriguing... an astounding piece of Atomic Machinery! Static on our scale, appearing to be lifeless, dead, not moving.

However, on the Atomic Scale quite the opposite is true!

One Copper Atom consists of:

Each Electron containing at least the Charge of the Elementary Charge:

  •  1.6021766208(98) × 10−19 Coulombs

 

However Charge can vary, so this is not the case for all charge! The Charges state is relative to its orbital.

We can see, the smallest cm3 contains a huge number of Atoms with an even larger number of charge! Copper is a Battery, a Static Battery. It is supplied from the Vacuum, with Subatomic particles to replace Charge as needed.

The conversion process is Charge Separation, as we find throughout the supply of Power delivery devices, Battery's, Solar Cells, Generators, and so on: This was also seen in the above video.

 

We must think to ourselves, every single piece of charge, in every Atom is at our disposal, the so called Magnetic Field has the Power to manipulate every charge that comes into contact with the Magnetic Field! This is the Lorentz Force:

 

    Chris

Chris posted this 3 weeks ago

I want to share an early draft copy of a document I am working on.

I want to share some thoughts and experiments with the Magnetic Field. Please note, this is an early copy, its not properly proof read. I would like to hear thoughts, comments on this!

URL: Does Science truly understand Electromagnetic Induction

   Chris

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sampojoe posted this 2 weeks ago

Hello Chris!  Well I find your work here superlative.  I am dying to build a small overunity device and I have skimmed several of your videos and I am not quite sure, but it seems you have all the details nailed from theory to circuits required, and I believe I have seen some of your devices working.  I love the theory behind Sweets coil and have caught Beardin discussing it in one of your videos briefly.  Let me introduce myself, I am a retired systems engineer in aviation, with degrees in Physics and Engineering.  I have been interested in Free Energy ever since "Secrets of Anti-Gravity Propulsion" caught my eye at Barnes & Noble about 7 years ago.  I have been a member at the Entergetic Forum for a while and have been building Tesla asymmetric DC motors there under a Ufopolitics thread, and am in the middle of building a large few HP size motor.  So I need to watch all your vids and can see me up into the wee hours quite a bit now!  So cutting to the chase, If you had any specific areas you could direct me to, to construct a small circuit, just show me where to start.  I had converted a car to use some HHO once and had mixed results dealing with the GM mass air flow sensors being frequency controlled.  I believe I may be a frequent visitor of your forum.   All around great job here, now off to the vids.

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Zanzal posted this 2 weeks ago

Hey sampojoe,

I believe that there are different phenomena that can be exploited to achieve OU. I know people want circuits, and there are plenty here, filter the forums on Devices to see these threads.  I believe until we understand the phenomena, finding a device and making it work is like groping in the dark. There are clearly individuals who do more than grope blindly, they construct devices with intent to trigger something. Consider this video below, an example of a certain phenomena. Watch closely, I overlooked this video the first time I saw it thinking there was nothing special here. It wasn't until I watched the entire video that I realized its importance:

I have reason to believe other phenomena exist which can be used, that's just one example.

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