The Field Structure of Nature

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Chris posted this 13 May 2018

For sometime now I have touched on what I think the Structure of the Magnetic Field is.

This idea comes from many years of research and experiments.

 

 

Structure of the Atom - by Giesbert Nijhuis:

 

The amazing Water Dual Vortex Phenomena:

 

We see this in the Tornado Dual Vortex

:

 

There is a lot of evidence to show that Magnetic Fields hold similar characteristics in their Field Structures.

Now, in the above image of the Coriolis Effect, you know why all hurricanes ever recorded:

  1. Never cross the Equator!
  2. Have a Spin Direction which is directly linked to the Coriolis Effect and the same phenomena shown above with the Dual Vortex effect.
  3. Has intensity linked to Magnetic Field strength!

 

Some argue that there is no Equator seen in the Magnetic Field, I say there is good evidence and has been through out history! At the end of the day, we all have our beliefs, some are based on evidence and some are not.

Science is starting to see an equatorial in the magnetic Field. The Solar System also exhibits a similar thing:

 

Vortex Rings are a natural phenomena, they are everywhere: One of my favourites:

 

   Chris

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Idea1man posted this 14 May 2018

Very good presentation, Chris. You are a natural teacher.

There should be an equator effect in magnets, as there is with nature universally, from atoms to galaxies. Walter Russell shows the full shape and effect of the double vortex phenomenon.

 

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Chris posted this 14 May 2018

Thanks Bob, I was going to add a Walter Russell Video. Great minds...

   Chris

onepower posted this 16 May 2018

Great posts, I like the north/south hemisphere video.

It would seem there are many people who can believe some things with no tangible proof yet cannot believe in other things with an abundance of proof. One oddity I had serious reservations about initially was "Dowsing" and I had to prove the matter for myself. I use two bent coat hanger wires and to this day I still have issues believing despite the fact I have found it to be 100% accurate in my case.

When talking with family and friends they say they cannot believe so I bend some wires and ask them to let me locate a pipe or line underground that I have no prior knowledge of. I locate it within inches and then they say it must be a trick of some kind. A trick?, how exactly can it be a trick if I have no prior knowledge of the thing I just located four feet underground?... that is some trick.

Statistically the probability of locating a pipe or line in a large field tends toward zero and yet for some reason it works. Here we can reasonably determine a few things... It does not work for everyone however we as individuals are obviously not "everyone" and there seem to be forces at play we have yet to understand.

Not a big deal, there are most likely billions of things we have yet to understand however one thing we can say for certain is that denial is not proof of anything other than denial.

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Chris posted this 17 May 2018

@Onepower,

I remember the use of 'Dowsing' when I was a kid. Not heard of this for a long time!

Things of old appear to be topics today we forget. I am glad to see these returning! Important things!

Re the Water Video, I wanted to understand this further, it was a fantastic phenomena.

Talking about proof, I saw a video, they claimed it is an answer to the Coriolis Effect: (They are confusing Centrifugal Force and the Coriolis Effect)

 

I say, they have a lot to learn and a lot to apologise for! I cant believe an organisation like this would make such an effort to Scientifically explain something that is clearly not the way it works! After all, how do Hurricanes or Cyclones form: 'warm, moist air over the ocean rises upward'.

As our Earth spins, so does our Atmosphere and thus there is no difference in velocity of the Earth to the Atmosphere, the theories are wrong, and the Coriolis Effect for most remains largely unexplained, or does it?

 

Experiment:

I replicated the video, using only the South Hemisphere as a baseline.

I took one of my large Magnets and placed it under the bowl, filled with water and what did I see? Yes, the Water swirled in the opposite direction! Flip the Magnet and the Water swirls in the opposite direction!

The Magnetic Field Polarity was key to the direction of the Vortex motion and I could change the Direction with Magnetic Field Polarity.

 

Science is awesome, understanding simple things that are not taught in school makes life very much more interesting!

   Chris

onepower posted this 17 May 2018

There is much to learn Chris and my experience led to many other experiments. Dowsing is not what most people think and it is known in the art that our mind rejects 99% of our sensory input. It does this to avoid an information overload however that is not to say we cannot retrain or open our mind to new things.

As such I have come to believe the dowsing wires or rods do not actually detect anything... how could they?, why should they move?. A much more likely explanation which I have proven in many respects is that our body detects the anomaly and our mind involuntarily causes us to move the rods in the right direction... an intuition detector of sorts. That is, we may be able to sense an extraordinary number of things around us intuitively if only we could train our mind not to reject 99% of the information it actually detects.

 

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Chris posted this 17 May 2018

I agree Onepower!

Our Mind, one of the three things given, yet we use so little of it! ( Lucy )

'Dowsing' and other phenomena like it absolutely amaze me, its the missing part of Humanity! I believe with time this will come, Humans will begin to be spiritual again, the ways of the ancients will return. They must, for the Golden Age!

The "Hall of Records" is not a Geographic Location on Earth, its a Intellectual Region that can be reached individually.

   Chris

Chris posted this 18 May 2018

Some discussion on the Thread: Bloch Wall Clarification

I want to carry on here, as this thread is where this started. We discussed the Bloch Wall and what it actually is. Please read if you wish to understand this continuation.

We saw, there is a definite Doughnut, or Toroidal collection of Ferro-Fluid on the End of the Magnet: 

 

 

Ponder this: Why do we detect no Magnetic Field at the Center of the Magnet at the Bloch Wall like we do at the Poles of the Magnet?

Consider a single Flux line, forgive my crude graphic:

 

This is using Howard Johnson's observations as the Bloch Wall in the Centre of the Magnet:

 

You can see, The Curl of the Magnetic A Vector Potential, as it follows the Flux Line, cancels at the Centre of the magnet, the observed High Stress area where my magnetic Probe did not want to traverse. This is a High Stress area, Magnetic Flux is opposing, and thus the total net Vectors are cancelling. We detect no Magnetic Field.

 

We see a Magnetic Calm in the middle of the magnet, effectively, the Magnetic Field is Cancelled. This is Nature showing us something very important. Problem is we have not been smart enough to understand.

The reason we see the Spikes, well it is very simple, these spikes are the Inverse Square Law in action, as we saw the Tornado above, there is a Dual Vortex occurring, the Cancellation of Flux creates a counter to the strength of the Flux and because of this Cancellation, we see it decrease in Flux Strength as a function of the distance. 

   Chris

Chris posted this 18 May 2018

If you ever wanted to know why the Van Allen Belts are protecting the Earth:

The Electric Field is the result of the Magnetic cancelling...

onepower posted this 18 May 2018

Many of the greatest minds in the past implied we must learn to see beyond the illusions nature has created in our mind. That is, to understand the difference between what we think we are seeing and the primary cause of what is actually happening in reality.

For example, consider the pattern of iron filings around a magnet. They say this shows the pattern of the magnetic field and lines of force however to me it shows a failure of logic and reason. The pattern is an illusion based on the phenomena of "magnetic induction" whereby a magnetic field will induce an opposite polarity magnetic field in any magnetic material such as iron. Thus we see that any iron will be polarized in such a way that the induced field is always attracted to the field which induced it.

Now concerning the iron filings, pieces of iron wire or cores in proximity to a magnet. When the pieces of iron material are magnetized or polarized they follow a simple set of rules. Parallel filings repel each other because the induced poles on each end of the filing are like poles thus they must repel. Iron filings not parallel but in series attract each other because the induced poles on each end are unlike poles thus they must attract.

At which point we can begin to see that because parallel filings repel and series filings attract the induced forces present would naturally cause lines of filings to form which converge at the source poles. The primary cause of said lines is not due to the source magnetic field but the individual fields induced in each iron filing acting on each other.

 

We must always keep the primary cause of things in mind and look past the superficial nature of what we think we are seeing in order to make progress.  

 

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Idea1man posted this 18 May 2018

I need to clarify what I am talking about. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the idea of two torus's in a magnetic field. Two opposite sides is the norm in nature. I'm only talking about the meaning of a Bloch Wall.  That's why I made a new topic. I don't care if it's moved to the Field Structure topic.

Thank you Onepower, that's all I meant. The center zone, of a magnet, is not termed a Bloch Wall. There doesn't appear to be a name for it. Perhaps for good reason.

The practice of coloring one half of a magnet red, and the other half blue, is misleading people. One half is not only North, and the other half is not only South, as if the poles are mono-poles. There are no magnetic mono-poles. Each atom, everywhere in the magnet, is the same dipole, pointed in the same direction, whether close to ends or in the middle.

 

magnetic molecules

 

Furthermore, the strength, of the magnet, is related to how many atoms are in it, the size of the magnet. And, from the experiments showing weakness toward the middle, it looks like internal strength depends on how many atoms are on each side of the interior zone, with the midline having equal amounts on either side. This doesn't require a change in polarity or domain. There's only one domain. Looking towards the North pole, from the interior, shows the South pole of the atoms. Looking towards the South pole, shows the North poles. Indeed, if the magnet is broken, the break on the North pole side becomes the South Pole, while the South pole side break becomes the North pole.

 

dummyload posted this 18 May 2018

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Idea1man posted this 18 May 2018

Dummyload   ...  Interesting old idea. Cotton covered wires, is that from the 1800's? Those would have Bloch Walls.

That starts a new idea that could be useful. Make modern strong Neo magnets with opposing poles in the middle, or two like poles on both ends of a magnet. Could be a way to make a magnet motor, or better PM generators.

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Chris posted this 18 May 2018

Hey Bob,

Sorry if I miss understood your question.

I agree, a Magnet is made up from lots of smaller Magnets. Why is a Neodymium Magnet so much better that Cobolt?

 

You can see, the number of Electrons/Protons are very much greater in a Neodymium Magnet compared to a Cobolt Magnet. The Electrons are what give rise to the Magnetic Field.

The Magnetic Field is created by the Net Electron Spin. An external Magnetic Field Aligning The Electrons:

 

Question:

What force attracts or repels the Magnets?

   Chris

Chris posted this 18 May 2018

@Onepower - Completely agree! For those reading this was bought up: here

@Dummyload - Awesome find! Thanks for sharing! Multi Pole Magnets have been around for some time, but this pre dates every thing I have read! Thanks for sharing!

 

   Chris

Chris posted this 18 May 2018

In a single Current loop we see something we have seen else where:

 

Magnetic Flux will always take the shortest path! In Air, in Iron, in any material that Magnetic Flux ( Φ ) traverses, it will always take the shortest possible path.

So where have we see this structure before? Its everywhere:

 

Atomic Detonations:

 

We see excellent evidence in the Ferro-Fluid of this on the end of the Magnet:

 

Ref: youtube.com watch?v=3PpKKDw_lIk

The conventional view of the Magnetic Field, we should see the Ferro-Fluid collect at the Centre of the Magnet, joining from one pole to the other, magnetic attraction, but we don't see this. In point of fact, the Ferro-Fluid does not want to move toward the Centre of the Magnet at all. 

Amazingly, Jellyfish have a similar shape:

Remember the shortest Path, this is what it looks like:

 

That's just the coolest thing, one of the most efficient structures in Nature!

   Chris

Idea1man posted this 18 May 2018

Chris, you come up with the best images, graphics, videos, etc.

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onepower posted this 18 May 2018

Many years ago I built a hall effect magnetometer array to plot magnetic field strength and came to similar conclusions as that of Howard Johnson. The greatest field strength is not at the center of the pole face but near the edge of the face where it curls back on itself. Thus most all depictions you see in the textbooks are incorrect.

However it begs the question... why at the edge of the pole face?. Reason suggests each layer of the domains should be treated as a layer and each layer is additive. There is no "whole" magnet as the whole is always composed of many parts and should be seen as such. Thus each layer of magnetic material stacked on the other grows in strength which must always reinforce a curl back on itself. More layers of material produces more force pushing forward and more force curling back on itself... the greatest curl where there is the greatest cumulative strength at the face edge.

It all makes more sense when seen from the proper perspective and explains why the greatest strength at the pole face edge should curl back to the center of the magnet. That is the nearest point of the lowest potential at the zero plane dividing the N-S condition. The next lowest potential condition is the opposite pole however we should remember it is twice the distance away.

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Chris posted this 19 May 2018

Isnt it amazing how this simple thread dispells the long standing myth of the Magnetic Field.

 

This is amazing also: Fundamental Building Blocks or Nature

 

The fundamental building blocks of nature are fluid-like substances which are spread throughout the entire universe and ripple in strange and interesting ways.

 

Sounds like the Aristotle's Quintessence! Dis-proven by the Michelson-Morley Experiment. 

   Chris

Chris posted this 19 May 2018

Also anther very good video:

 

   Chris

onepower posted this 19 May 2018

In the big picture we should strive to experiment and perform experiments for ourselves to prove matters for ourselves... anything less just seems like speculation.

Here is another experiment I performed in the past which may interest some here. I was preoccupied with Faraday's Homopolar motor/generator and I could not understand how something which appears to simple could be so complicated. Why the conjecture?, why a supposed paradox?. So I went through the literature and as most have found the standard explanations seem absurd at best.

So as we start removing all that is known and start concentrating on a primary cause we are left with the notion that something is happening in the copper disk with respect to a supposedly static magnetic field. Here we have two options... a current across a disk and a magnetic field so we can discard the magnetic field as it reasonably know so far as know can be.

The copper disk... I used an 120v AC dissectible transformer secondary as a primary and a 3 turn coil as a secondary which was rectified to produce a DC current around 200 amperes. This was connected across the length of a thick aluminum plate with no external magnetic field disk attached. I used my hall effect magnetometer array to track and plot the magnetic field strength in the plate thus the actual path of the current through the plate. It was found that the current path specifically being a free path cannot follow the path of least resistance. Why?, because the curl of the magnetic field bound to a free current path induces a secondary field in the plate which acts in such a direction that the free current path always forms an arc and not a straight line as supposed.

Now if we have an electric current which has a free path not constrained like a wire conductor and the currents magnetic field is bound to said current which must self-induce itself within the conductor forming an arc. Then the perpendicular supposedly static permanent magnetic field disk attached to the copper disk in a homoplar motor/generator must recognize the secondary induced field forming an arc as a motional conductor due to the arc of the free current path.

The confusion would seem to be due to the fact that perceptually our mind has serious reservations concerning a motional force acting on another motional force with few or no constraints as the zero plane which dictates the fulcrum from which the the forces are born becomes motional or elastic in itself. It would seem to confound our mind to no end that nature is dynamic always acting within three dimensions on multiple scales.

Personally I find it interesting because there is always something new to learn from even the most basic experiments. A mind at rest remains at rest, a mind in motion... that's another story.

If there is a lesson to be learned it is simple... check your premise, experiment.

 

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Marathonman posted this 19 May 2018

Very wise statement Onepower,  Gravity has a three dimensional plain of existence and when exposed to a two dimensional magnetic field it cancels out two of the Gravitational dimensions leaving one Gravitational dimension which causes currant to flow from the Aether (counter space) into the primer system.(space) the whole electron knocking loose loose thing makes me chuckle as that would make copper not copper. i am a firm believer of electricity traveling on the outside of the wire not through it but hey, that is not everyone's game of dielectric reflector theory. as for the the currant path and curl i very much agree currant is guided in an arch trajectory to the outer rim being guided by spiraling fields and counter fields.

 

Marathonman

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Idea1man posted this 19 May 2018

Now that we have gotten down to the original basics of the structure of a magnetic field, I can see what the lines of force are. They are like the meteorologist's isobar lines, which don't exist. They only mark pressure measurements. The magnetic lines don't exist. They only mark strength of the magnetic field. The field extends everywhere around the magnet indefinitely, theoretically. Of course, it decreases in strength rapidly.

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onepower posted this 19 May 2018

Idea1man

Quote: "Now that we have gotten down to the original basics of the structure of a magnetic field, I can see what the lines of force are. They are like the meteorologist's isobar lines, which don't exist. They only mark pressure measurements."

Exactly, the standard is that if possible you never use a measuring device which is directly influenced by the thing to be measured or the measure is corrupt. However this is exactly what they did when they used ferromagnetic material in the iron filings experiment. As such they were not measuring the source field structure they were measuring the effects of magnetic induction on iron filings.

To make matters worse they then conceived imaginary lines of force based on their flawed perspective due to the corrupt measurement. Then they proceeded to apply this flawed model to everything in science in effect corrupting the science.

This is a perfect example of what happens when we layer one false belief on another built on a foundation of quicksand.

 

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Chris posted this 20 May 2018

My Friends,

I agree completely with you all.

However, there is a useful construct to the Magnetic Field, it must be recognised that Science has the Magnetic Field wrong, once properly conceptualised, it still does provide a useful means of description.

A long time ago I pointed out the use and method of the Turbo, how a pressure is a tool of Humanity.

Pressure or Stress, the same thing.

Stress is the Invokes Induction as pointed out by Onepower, Induction is the Measure of what we call Voltage and Current - The Absolute Goal.

In my work, presenting Bucking Coils, and the Stress they create, we have now come full circle:

 

   Chris

Idea1man posted this 20 May 2018

The team of Howard Johnson; Beyer; and Davis engineered the best, most detailed imaging of magnetic fields. It's far different than anyone else. They also join those who think there are magnetic particles which circulate. 

The image won't copy here, but it's two vortexes on each pole, with one smaller than the other.

 

Chris posted this 21 May 2018

Hey Bob,

A lot of great work was done by Howard and his team, they never really got properly recognised.

Nature has such uniformity but at the same time can be very random. Random only for a short time before equilibrium kicks back in.

We have the ability to delay Natures Equilibrium however, the greatest gift Nature has to offer.

Are Images a problem for you? This should be working now. 2mb of less all common image types are supported.

   Chris

Idea1man posted this 28 May 2018

More about Nature's physical double torus.

 

Adam Trombly seems to agree with the Howard Johnson double torus magnetic field, except his unipolar dynamo has two magnets. I don't, at this time, as there is no Bloch Wall in a single uniform magnet.

 

I can agree that there's a difference at the equator, such as a weaker field. But that would be because of a Vortex Based Field.

 

 

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Vidura posted this 28 May 2018

Hi team

here as a really  interesting explication from mr.Tewari Paramahamsa about the structure of atoms, followed by a testing of his reduced reaction generator. some parts of the video are with problems of soundtrack ,but it's worth waching.

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Idea1man posted this 28 May 2018

Vidura   ...  P. Tewari's "space" generator is a unipolar dynamo, very similar to DePalma's, although the device in that video looks more like a normal generator. Unfortunately, I can barely understand what he is saying. His drawing shows a void in the center of an electron. That is similar to one of Walter Russell's ideas.

Thank you for that, Vidura. Tewari has written about seven books. He has a well developed philosophy about Space, Space Vortex Theory. I could only find his "Beyond Matter" book. It's selling used for $200-300. He believes that an electron is a void, empty space, with a vortex around it rotating at the speed of light, which causes physical effects. There doesn't appear to be any independent agreement for it.

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Vidura posted this 28 May 2018

Hi Idea1men, Unfortunately the soundtrack is really difficult to understand, I used headphones and reviewed several times. The Space generator is not unipolar, it is a dynamo machine with a special shape of rotor and stator cores, so he creates a parallel flux path to bypass partially the counterEMF. He states to have a COP of 3-4 with this machine and have a readily developed prototype and is looking for investment to begin series production. Regarding the atom he describes as hollow but finally not empty, it contains space or aether, with a imensly high flux density in the centre,which is consistent with some other scientists.

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Idea1man posted this 28 May 2018

Vidura, yes I noticed Tewari's device, in the video, is not unipolar. I'm surprised that he got such good results with that. I believe his unipolar design was also termed a Space Power Generator. I saw the similarity to Ether theory. It sounds like he's right, connecting the vacuum of space to matter.

You should start a Topic with his device. Are you in India?

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Vidura posted this 29 May 2018

when i  reveving this threat a statement about magnetic lines of force called my attention.the magnetic lines where compared to the isobaric lines from meteorology and show only diferent densities of flux.

i think that this comparision is not at all correct, the lines (existing or not) should be understand better like waves in the aether, a pattern, like if a stone is thrown into the water, setting up a wave pattern. for sure we can question if this waves have a proper  existence or if it's only water at all(or aether), but the effects are touchable or measureable.

There is an experiment described in an old peace of literature about magnets, i can't remember well in which book.

it consists in a sensible audioamplifier which has a single thin wire connected, then a magnet is moved forward and back very close to this wire.the noise produced is like a rippling, with a frequency proportional to the velocity of the movement.

The pattern of magnetic lines should be better interpreted like nodes in a standing wave, each one marking a maximum and a minimum, and yes they are gradually becoming weaker as the distance  increases. this aspect is similar to the isobaric lines.

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Idea1man posted this 14 June 2018

Vidura   ...  My McAfee software detected a virus in that Tewari download. What site did you get it from? His electron paper is from 2005.

Vidura posted this 14 June 2018

Idea1man, i have downloaded from Tewari.org page. Strange, i have also McAffee on my notebook running and did not detect anything, I will scan the file again and replace.This is a new publication released march 2018

Attached Files

Idea1man posted this 15 June 2018

Interesting. Tewari believes there is an empty space in the center of an electron. That agrees with Walter Russell.

Vince posted this 03 July 2018

Some years ago I was managing a project at QUT in Brisbane.  The academic supervisor of the project was a Dr David Nuske.  He had a doctorate in physical dynamics.  

Gyroscopes undergoing precession were something I wanted a better understanding of and I asked him to help me in gaining that understanding one day. The sum of angular forces at work within a gyroscope undergoing forced precession are considered completely non intuitive, and I was somewhat relieved when he told me that.  Of course it is possible that he was just being kind too.

 He suggested that I plot the course of a location represented by a single dot on the outer surface of a gyroscope whilst it was undergoing forced (torque induced) precession.

By breaking up the path of the dot through it's three dimensional journey into discreet points along that path I could actually visualize it's course through one full cycle.  He then suggested I add three vectors to the dot at each location that represented the direction and magnitude of the angular forces acting upon that dot at every moment/location along it's path.  I was to then integrate those three into a single vector which would represent the Coriolis force at each point on my dot's journey. 

Coriolis is not actually a force in and of itself but is the sum of other angular forces.  It is a pseudo force, or sometimes described as an effect.  It is the sum of other angular forces acting on a body, or dot.  My dot had to have some arbitrary mass (I'm sure you got that bit already)

It is certainly a real effect in that it is able to be calculated accurately in both direction and magnitude.  Artillery officers are required to not only be familiar with it, but to be able to calculate exactly how it will affect the path of a projectile being fired in a north or south direction.  Actually any direction that has any substantial north or south directional component.

I decided to do as he suggested and at the end of the exercise I finally understood what Coriolis is.  However, it was not the only thing I learned from doing that exercise.  Prior to that I did not know that asprin is required to fuel a pen during such undertakings.

 

 

Chris posted this 03 July 2018

@Vince,

Thanks for sharing, this is an interesting exercise!

What is the fundamental force that enables Precession? Is Precession a Cause or an Effect?

 

 

the slow movement of the axis of a spinning body around another axis due to a torque (such as gravitational influence) acting to change the direction of the first axis. It is seen in the circle slowly traced out by the pole of a spinning gyroscope.

 

The spin of a charged particle is associated with a magnetic dipole moment with a g-factor differing from 1.

 

The surface of the Earth has a negative charge of 300,000 volts relative to the positively charged ionosphere.

 

If the Earth had no Magnetic Field would it Precess?

 

Precession is experienced by all particles with non-zero spin when placed in a static external magnetic field. As the earth's magnetic field is "always on", nearly every magnetically receptive nucleus on earth, including hydrogen in every drop of water in the ocean, is at this moment quietly precessing away! I personally find this concept mind-boggling.

The earth's magnetic field is very small (~50 μT) and so the resonance frequencies are likewise very low (just a little over 2000 Hz for hydrogen). MRI and MRS have both been performed using only the earth's magnetic field.

Ref: http://mriquestions.com/does-precession--nmr.html

 

As you say, there is a Cause and Effect, depending on the determined Cause, you can see the Effect, but if the Effect can be modified by the fundamental, in experimental processes, then the cause must be reexamined. 

If Precession is caused by the Magnetic Field, then the Coriolis Effect must also be caused by the Magnetic Field, Precession, an Effect, and the Coriolis Effect, also an effect both effects seen after the fundamental. 

I believe the experiment I have shared would be valuable to all that replicate it!

   Chris

Vince posted this 04 July 2018

If Precession is caused by the Magnetic Field, then the Coriolis Effect must also be caused by the Magnetic Field, Precession, an Effect, and the Coriolis Effect, also an effect both effects seen after the fundamental

The model I was considering at the time was a spinning gyroscope inclined at 90° to the earths surface with one end of it's axle supported by a post, and the other end not supported.  The gyroscope had not charge nor associated field/s.  I am aware that there is a mass field associated with spinning masses but that is way above my head, and have been assured that it is not of enough magnitude in my little gyroscope to bother with so I was more than happy to ignore it. The earths magnetic field is not of sufficient magnitude to have any appreciable affect on a little brass gyroscope. 

I initially wanted to understand the forces preventing the unsupported end of the axle from falling under the influence of gravity, and why the gyroscope would rotate around the post once the free end was allowed to fall, but in fact did not fall.  I had previously spent quite some time looking at this weirdness and wondering what was going on.  By modeling the gyroscope, which is in fact a simple flywheel, I was trying to reduce the problem as far as possible. 

It has occurred to me previously that there must be a force acting on the earth for it to undergo precession.  However, just when I thought I had a handle on it I learned that there are two types of precession.  Torque-induced and non torque-induced.  I've not spent the time to learn the dynamics of non torque-induced precession due to other interests etc. so I let the earth's precession slide on by for the time being.  Then I began reading this post and realized my asprin powered pen might have to come back out. 

Since I got CFS my job squeezes most of the juice out of my poor little brain cells and they are very reluctant to do anything further.  Trying to get them to tackle anything else is about as easy as pushing jelly up a pipe with a toothpick.

Once you introduce a magnetic field of sufficient magnitude to have appreciable affects things become even more complicated.  In the case of a metallic gyroscope with an imposed axial magnetic field Lorentz force must be considered.  And to make matters worse, that is also an angular force.  And then, to complicate it even further, you get another problem at no extra charge.  There will then be an angular motion of separated charges which will introduce more magnetic field interactions.

I did discuss the water in a basin problem with Nuske.  He believed, as I do these days, that the bowl is not of sufficient scale to be affected by the earths rotation and that bowl design and initial conditions play a larger role.  However I say this with great caution as I have not personally done any experiments of my own with this particular model. 

Nuske believed the release of the water into the bowel was going to affect the outcome to a large degree and would have to be arranged with great rigor, and the experiment repeated many times over with the same apparatus and initial conditions.  Nuske claimed at that time that he had himself done this experiment and that he observed indeterminate results as the water would just as often go either way.  I do know that this is done for tourists at some locations, but again, what are the initial conditions?  Is the water poured in 'exactly' perpendicular to the axis etc etc.. Has there been sufficient time to allow the water to completely settle such that there are no disturbances whatsoever?  I can't know the answer to these questions.

Now, your experiment introduces another consideration Chris.  If it is tap water there are ions in the water.  These ions will interact with the magnetic field via Lorentz force.  If one were to use pure water and the rotation still occurred it is even more complicated,  and certainly of interest to me.  What affect would the magnetic field have on a non conductive medium that is in perfect charge balance?  I am not aware of any forces that the magnetic field could impose on the water under such conditions.  However, if I were to list the number of things that I do not know there would not be enough paper, or bytes available to record it.  What is even worse is that not only is there virtually infinite stuff that I don't know, but I can't even know that I don't know it until I become aware if it in the first place!  Learning, for me, seems to have an inverse relationship to knowledge.

 

 

Chris posted this 04 July 2018

Hey Vince,

Well states! A lot of considerations to take into account! Yes I have also said the same, the more one learns the more one realises one has yet to learn.

I don't have a lot to add, but I always choose to have an open mind, not counting my pennies until they are firmly in my pocket.

   Chris

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