DISCLOSURE: USA has retrieved craft of non-human origin

My Friends,

An interesting docco:

Here is the Transcript:

Intro
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were there actually updates  in physics maybe mid-century   that were not disclosed to the public well i  mean it quieted down because nobody ever got  
0:10
anywhere or it quieted it down because  it did get somewhere and it went black   ladies and gentlemen it's finally here the much  anticipated conversation with eric weinstein and  
0:19
hal put off the world's most brilliant physics  mind of our time is the son of the country's most  
0:26
prominent and important anti-gravity researcher of  the 1950s i don't know what any of this is hal is  
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an electrical engineer and laser physicist former  nsa and cia hal was a senior advisor to atip the  
0:40
official government ufo investigation program that  ran from 2007 to 2012 out of bigelow aerospace he  
0:47
also founded and ran the cia's psychic spy program  called stargate out of stanford research institute  
0:54
in the 70s does our government have a protocol to  wield stigma as a tool for keeping its programs  
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secret certainly there are parts of the government  who consider that to be their job many of you are  
1:08
already familiar with my colleague eric weinstein  he's a mathematician who's dared to construct a   unified theory of physics called geometric unity  he's also a prominent yet rebellious cultural  
1:18
commentator who founded the intellectual dark  web i still carry the sense of i cannot believe   i am sitting here discussing visitations from  some intelligent life that we don't understand
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this interview is neither for the queasy  nor the faint of mind there are more videos   some are better how much better as good as you  could probably want for many of your comments i  
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haven't cut much from this interview i left  it pretty raw long form and unedited it's   a deep technical dive into the physics of ufos  along with the implications of their prominence  
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in the modern zeitgeist that is that we are  either being subjected to the most interesting  
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effective and weird government psyop  of all time or our top scientists are  
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missing something fundamental about the nature  of reality and finally hal gets about as candid  
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as he's ever been about the government's psychic  spy program stargate while eric who's a little  
2:11
more skeptical of parapsychology tries not to  throw up we ran 70 30 instead of 50 50. sorry  
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but if you want to do it feel free to do it i've  told you how to do it so you can just go do it  
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okay you don't have a lot of room to move you  either have to postulate new physics or you have  
2:29
to say this isn't material everything here is  bold my conclusion is that there is something  
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there i don't like losing to jesse it's horrible  losing him on ufos i don't want to lose it to him   a second time but something is wildly off so with  that out of the way hit subscribe and get ready to  
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unlearn everything you thought you knew about the  material world with eric weinstein and hal put off  
2:57
different parts have different  activities but you know that don't you
The Intelligence Committee
3:16
the intelligence committee has ordered the  director of national intelligence and the   secretary of defense to deliver a report on  the mysterious sightings of unidentified aerial  
3:26
phenomena uap more commonly known as ufos the  reason i found the report fascinating was because  
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it reeked of conflict i could clearly detect a  voice an authorial voice that wanted to disclose  
3:43
more and one that said over my dead body and  the over my dead body people seem to be stronger  
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but losing ground the first branch of the decision  tree is is it stuff that is unintentionally  
3:58
in the air versus stuff that is intentionally in  the air the unintentional stuff was broken into  
4:03
two categories that was clutter and atmospheric  effects the stuff that is intentionally in the  
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air was broken into the next branch which was  us not us not us was broken into two things  
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known others and unknown others and that other  is intentionally in the air not us not anyone we  
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know not necessarily aliens could be coming out  of the ocean could be time travel i mean who the  
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hell knows but anything in that other category is  astonishing i think one very important thing that  
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most people in government who study this seem  to sort of have a consensus on that the public  
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might not realize is the idea that there is a  separation between substrate and signature when  
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it comes to ufos and there might be a difference  in terms of the way somebody perceives it and some  
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underlying sort of proto architecture and so if  we have been seeing these things for thousands  
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of years we've been seeing them in different  forms different forms and maybe different sources  
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these days since our technology platforms are  so high to generate effects they could mimic  
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and our detection platforms are so well  advanced so we could see a lot more  
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then it really is a zoo of options and  possibilities and so for example for the tic  
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tac videos that are so well known lou elizondo  was behind releasing those videos i remember  
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seeing them in the pentagon before they were  released but there are more videos some are better  
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how much better well as good as you  could probably want if you showed me  
The Physics of UFOs
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pieces of a craft and you guaranteed me somehow  that it came from outside the solar system my  
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first thought wouldn't be technology it would be  physics because everything is so far away from us  
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other than our solar system that i would be  wondering well how did it get here when you look  
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at the civil war in the united  states it took place in the 1860s  
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within less than a hundred years we were dropping  fusion devices from jet aircraft less than a  
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hundred years less than a single lifetime it  means that we almost had a nuclear civil war  
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and it was a very near miss now what separated the  1860s which looked like antiquity to many of us  
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from 1952 when we have the first fusion weapon  explode it was changes in our understanding of  
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the physical world that means anytime you have a  profound physical insight post i don't know 1940s  
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you have to ask yourself what pandora's box  with a new physical insight potentially open and  
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i don't know why we're not more worried  about this i think because we've been   failing at physics for 50 years we've gotten  out of the habit of thinking physics is really  
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dangerous and you have to track every  single important physicist because any   change in our physical understanding  of the universe can unlock holy hell  
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were there actually updates in physics maybe  mid-century that were not disclosed to the public
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another puzzle we would love to have cleared  up is an understanding of the role of aerospace  
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companies as holders of potentially basic  scientific knowledge not shared with the  
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academic world is it possible it seems very  wrong to me may be wrong but it's um true  
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it is true you believe it's true yeah i know  it's true you know that there's physics knowledge  
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held by aerospace companies that is not  there certainly is materials knowledge   materials well okay materials which  involves topological physics or whatever  
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okay but fundamental physics as opposed to  you know condensed matter or right certainly  
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aerospace corporations have knowledge in the  uap area that specifically are sequestered by  
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against foia because of proprietary appreciables  which the whole thing was set up to be that way  
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on purpose right but the idea that there would  be fundamental physical knowledge that would be   housed in an aerospace company and not shared with  the physics community there is no evidence of that  
9:00
no evidence for it i'm not that i know of and i  wouldn't that doesn't mean it's not the case but  
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that would be this crazy egregious it would  change our entire concept of who we are if  
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somebody kept fundamental physics secret in  the years since we became capable of exploding  
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fusion devices i would grab a pitchfork and a  tiki torch and i would march on the national  
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science foundation right right i don't  i still can't believe that that's true  
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it would only be if it were the case that  in fact we have mastered anti-gravity  
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and they're being built by aerospace corporations  then new physics would have to be involved is  
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what is called the golden age of general  relativity tied to these topics that is  
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there was this bizarre surge of activity in  general relativity between you know i would say  
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the time of einstein in the 50s or something like  that there wasn't a ton of development in gr and  
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then suddenly there was this explosion there was  a well this explosion uh there there's a famous uh  
Antigravity
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series came out in miami herald and other  newspapers in probably the 50s the author was  
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talbert and he did a series where he found  out that a number of aerospace engineering  
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companies were suddenly interested in anti-gravity  and that people like dewitt on up and down  
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really top level physicists were suddenly getting  grants to look at the idea of antigravity for  
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example the gravity essay came along the gravity  research foundation foundation right and so  
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it looked like it's going to be a big explosion  but anyway then it all sort of quieted down and  
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i could take two implications of that and that is  it quieted down because nobody ever got anywhere  
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or quieted it down because it did  get somewhere and it went black   my understanding is that there were really  twin loci of activity one of which surrounds a  
Twin loci
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gravity research foundation in new boston new  hampshire and i guess that was the work of babson  
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and the story is sort of not really very plausible  that his sister had drowned in a pond or something  
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to that effect and so he had gravity as his sworn  enemy um you know this story no i had not heard  
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this oh yeah so babson contacted lewis whitten who  was coming out of johns hopkins and then oddly a  
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similarly named individual named bainson with  some sort of tobacco or air conditioning fortune  
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reaches out to bryce dewitt and asks whether  he will found an institute at the university  
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of north carolina chapel hill right for the study  of physical fields and particularly focusing on  
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gravity particularly focused on gravity somehow  dewitt has the courage to answer this essay  
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contest in the other silo and destigmatizes it  so there was money to be had but nobody wanted  
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to touch it because of fear of ridicule from  their colleagues and then there's a famous  
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gravity conference at the university of north  carolina chapel hill that sort of kicks a lot   of this off it's a tremendous flurry  of activity at a time when anti-gravity  
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was trying to break into respectability at a  minimum we know that the glenn martin company  
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where martin was an early pioneer i think  from the time of the wright brothers  
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that the glenn martin company becomes martin  marietta later becomes lockheed martin so   that word martin is coming all the way through was  employing i believe lewis whitton edward whitton's  
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father to do anti-gravity research somehow  tied up with wright-patterson air force base  
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in ohio and the johns hopkins university  in baltimore maryland so there's something  
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about aerospace in the 1950s and sort of post  manhattan project era that's pretty potent  
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and we're confused by this why was solomon left  schetz the great topologist recruited to be  
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involved with louis whitten and to have an entire  non-linear group working on mathematics that then  
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gets moved to brown university when i believe that  these programs are sunsetted so they get spun off  
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back into the academic ecosystem i don't know  what any of this is so you have top physicists  
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working on crazy stuff and physicists don't  know the story yeah right yeah it's like i knew  
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it because it was weird it stood out the lewis  whitten edward whitton story has never been fully  
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made sense the world's most brilliant physics  mind of our time is the son of the country's  
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most prominent and important anti-gravity  researcher of the 1950s do you think that string  
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theory which edwin worked on is intentionally a  bridge to nowhere i have privately said to you  
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that string theory was a very odd development  because it both allowed physics to proceed as  
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if it was doing something new while breaking no  new ground in the physical world in which we live  
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i don't really know if you were trying to stagnate  the field string theory is pretty brilliant
Einsteins theory
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if there was knowledge that allowed you to  to traverse the cosmos in other words if you   could render einstein's theory effective the way  einstein rendered newton's theory non-fundamental  
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but an effective theory derived  from einstein's theory in a limit  
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to not share that knowledge with the  physics community would be seen as gross  
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academic and intellectual malpractice yeah if  somebody had that level of knowledge i mean  
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the best that uh you know we could do in the  in the a-tip program was say okay let's accept  
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einstein's gr as being the theory okay even  though there are all kinds of arguments  
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right subscribe by gr you mean general relativity  general relativity and for this subject area for  
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the uap subject area as far as as we've gone is  to say okay suppose i treat general relativity  
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einstein's equations for general relativity  the way i would treat maxwell's equations for   electromagnetism if we could manipulate variables  and einstein's equations the way we manipulate  
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variables in maxwell's equations you  would see certain kinds of things   which tend to match claimed observations of  uap phenomena somewhere there's a missing key  
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for how you can do manipulation of those  variables in einstein's equations without  
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having to have a black hole in your pocket are you  talking about the idea that you want to promote  
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constance to field content to be  actual physical fields that can  
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vibrate and live and move yes i would say so but  then you have the quantum mechanical consequences  
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when you promote something to field content you  break it you bought it you've got a lot of uh  
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you've got fluctuations and uncertainty principles  and it contributes to all sorts of uh processes  
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and sometimes you get you know explosions of  terms of series things stop converging and   things can get quite bad is that something that  you feel you've handled well at a certain level
Field Variables
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how can we describe in layman's terms the idea  of promoting a constant like the gravitational  
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constant into a field variable so a very kind  of helpful actual analogy used for me who's a  
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i'm a total idiot when it comes to this stuff  is a circle and pi being a constant you know the  
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area of a circle is pi r squared uh and so if the  circle had bumps in it or if it was topologically  
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different in some way pi wouldn't be pi pi would  sort of be more variable in such circumstances  
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something that you thought was a constant  turns out to be variable when considered in a  
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larger space of possibilities likewise  if i ask what is the temperature in this  
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room i'm feeling a little bit chilly and you  might say oh i think the temperature is 64.  
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but then we might find out that in fact the room  varies between 63 degrees and the 69 degrees in a  
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different corner of the room so something that you  thought was a number like we just we had inflation  
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estimates of 6.8 and then 7.0 percent and i  was very angry about that because my claim was  
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that you should report inflation on various maps  the way you show the temperatures in the country  
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on a temperature map with gradients and isotherms  and what have you if you do that to numbers like  
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for example the gravitational constant that  constant could be the value of a function  
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and if it was the value of a function and  then that function became quantum mechanical   you would have to treat it quantum mechanically  it's not cheap to replace a number by a function  
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or a field we have an entire planet pulling us  towards these couches and yet when the interview  
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is done we will get up from these couches  defeating an entire planet the weakness of gravity  
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is one of the great mysteries of  our lives it's inconceivably weak  
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true enough yeah and if we accept  gravit einstein's general relativity as  
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again i'm not quite sure how much of it you  you take issue with it would seem that we are  
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either prisoners here or that we have to lean  so heavily on time dilation or we would have to
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amass levels of energy i mean your point is  yeah we can't we can't do it from what we know  
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for sure okay so then the idea is  we'd have to have something wrong  
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in gr yeah something is at least  missing okay maybe jar is okay  
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as it goes but we're missing something  that would have the effect of  
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manipulating the variables in there that  we can't do with any reasonable engineering  
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approach well so far as i know there's only  one analog that even smells vaguely like  
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this in electromagnetism aaronoff and bohm  argued that if you pass an electron beam  
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around a solenoid and pass the current through  it if it was perfectly insulated you would have  
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no e and b fields out that is electric electric  and magnetic fields outside of the solenoid but  
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yet you'd get a phase shift in the electron beam  is it circled this is what's known as a holonomia  
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effect you guys talked about this incredible  experiment called the bohm iron off effect can   you show me the actual experiment imagine you have  some sort of an electron gun and you have a beam  
The Bohm Iron Off Effect
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of electrons and they hit a first mirror  so that they bounce off of that mirror  
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you have a next mirror in the form of a diamond  and i'm looking down on my table top experiment  
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and i've got some sort of a detector over here  if i have a wire here that's heavily heavily  
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insulated i can imagine running a current  through this wire the solenoid in the center  
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and the e and b fields would be dead  equal to zero because of the insulator  
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however when i pass current through  this wire mysteriously the detector  
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picks up different patterns of self-interference  of the phase of the electron function  
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in other words this setup can detect whether  there's current passing through the wire despite  
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near perfect insulation that was what  was so frightening in the late 50s   is that we were discovering that it  wasn't the electromagnetic fields at all  
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that were really the important actor in the  electromagnetic story we thought we understood   electromagnetism from the time of maxwell but  clearly the electromagnetic four potential  
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was really the main actor do we understand the  nature of the electromagnetic for potential or  
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is it just this sort of geometrically i think we  have a very good handle okay and so you mentioned  
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the higgs field looking like something like  analogous to like a wine bottle what would the   electromagnetic four potential geometrically look  like well it looks like a version of the escher  
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staircase or the penrose stairs in effect those  stairs would be something like we would call them  
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horizontal subspaces the weird feature of going  around a circuit and always going up the stairs  
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and yet never climbing in height that would  be what we would call a holonomia effect due  
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to curvature paradox and you can go way  beyond that so there are all kinds of  
Polarizable Vacuum Approach
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toroidal geometries for example where you have  no em fields whatsoever but you have strong  
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vector scalar fields and since you have  no lorentz force in the absence of e and b  
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then how can you detect them well you detect  them by the by any kind of quantum detector they  
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can detect phase shifts can detect the vector  scalar potential even in the absence of fields  
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so there's a whole engineering approach  concerning which i have two patents by the way  
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and have started a new company that involves only  dealing with vector and scalar potentials when you  
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are trying to come up with this analogy between  electromagnetism and general relativity to  
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explain some of these effects are you dealing  only with the leviticuvida connection of the   metric as einstein did or are you considering i'm  basically dealing with the metric coefficients  
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by postulating a dielectric vacuum whose  dielectric constant values for say epsilon  
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mu the permeability and permittivity of the vacuum  can be manipulated and once you manipulate those  
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you're manipulating c which is one over square  root scrutiny epsilon and so once you begin  
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to manipulate c then you can change effects  associated with all of the and so you could  
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with this with this polarizable vacuum  approach which i published in physics journal  
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you can get all of the quote tests  of general relativity and so on so  
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so the fact that you might be  able to pursue that further   by taking into account the fact that underlying  electromagnetism is is vacuum fluctuations  
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which have the effect of controlling  the value for epsilon and mu so then  
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you say okay well if i want to go over  to general relativity maybe i can control   the underlying values for the metric coefficients  so there are various mathematical approaches to  
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kind of pushing einstein's equations to be not  quite einsteinian so we're not talking about this  
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this is what has been confusing to me there's  a question of accepting the einsteinian prison  
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or trying to do to einstein what einstein did to  newton and then say there's a more fundamental  
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theory and what you're really saying is that  you're trying to come up with a more fundamental   theory than general relativity in which many of  the things that are hard coded are in fact vacuum  
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expectation values that are only discernible  within the theory something like that yeah
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there are consequences after impact you have a  theory that is a greater it's more expansive than  
Geometric Unity
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einstein einstein would be you can locate einstein  with you can locate einstein within it and so  
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does any of the stuff in geometric unity your  theory dovetail with what you're seeing in terms  
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of observables with ufos and uaps there are two  strong versions of geometric unity in one case  
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you put an extra six dimensions as time dimensions  into into the mix and so one plus six is seven  
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and then you've got four extra spatial dimensions  four plus the three spatial dimensions we already   know is seven so you'd have what we would  call a split signature metric seven and  
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seven seven times seven space the other way of  of effectively gluing these extra dimensions is  
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in is to flip them so you'd have four extra time  dimensions that would be five time dimensions in  
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total versus nine spatial with three that we  know plus six new ones in either case though  
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you're talking about multiple temporal dimensions  and even physicists rarely talk about multiple  
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temporal dimensions because it completely  breaks our paradigm of what we might call  
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hamiltonian dynamics the idea that you you can  take any situation in space and then propagate  
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it through time to get the future when you  have more than one time dimension you have  
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more than one future you have no arrow of time you  have a whirlpool of time for the first additional  
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time dimension then you have a right hand rule of  time and so this arrow of time becomes something  
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you would call a time orientation and then the  weird horrible thing about that if i may use the  
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board yeah go for it when you have more than one  temporal dimension you now have a new possibility  
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that you've never considered which is you could  go back into this extra extra time dimension
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and find yourself at an earlier event without  ever having to retrace time steps you wouldn't  
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have to run time backwards we don't really  know how to think about these things very well   they lead to something which is called ultra  hyperbolic equations and we don't have a ton  
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of focus or skill around these sorts of problems  one of my biggest concerns is that if geometric  
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unity turns out to be true we don't know what it  means to be able to hack extra temporal dimensions
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that's a big concern i mean it would probably  explain some of this uh at least observably  
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faster than speeding travel see that's the  thing there is no faster than light travel  
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and we have to train people away from saying you  think we have faster than light travel there may  
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be something that would appear to be faster which  temporal dimension hacking which sort of makes it  
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because a lot of these uaps seem to sort of  mater materialize and dematerialize it will  
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look there's certainly scope for pattern  matching if you have things like dark chemistry  
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dark light if you have a multiple spatial  and temporal dimensions beyond what we know  
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the concern though is we don't know whether  they're accessible the interest and the fear  
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has to do with the idea that maybe somebody else  knows the answer to this and they aren't human  
Stigma
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so that one's called the time warp i can't  believe you never saw rocky wore a picture   no i know it's a cult classic have you seen it  speaking of cults how weren't you in scientology  
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oh year years years back i checked into it  because at that time we were doing you know  
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setting up a remote viewing program we were  checking into everything silver mind control   scientology whatever whatever i thought some  of the techniques were definitely of value but  
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i disconnected from them in their mid 70s  or whatever i think what we need to do is  
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we need to talk about pseudoscience and stigma  and its weaponization and its use so the first  
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thing i want to ask you about is does our  government have a protocol to wield stigma  
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as a tool for keeping its programs secret is the  is the government so certainly there are parts of  
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the government who consider that to be their job  is there language for the manipulation of stigma  
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to discourage people from under undertaking  scientific investigations that might lead them  
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into an area of security concern there  is a language in there there are certain   operations that sort of have that effect but  there are people who are trying to get around  
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you you personally have been the target of a great  deal of directed stigma it would seem to me do you  
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have a sense that you've been that your career has  been directed by manufactured signals certainly  
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there was manufactured stigma and control we've  had people actually shut down a piece of a program  
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on the basis that american taxpayer dollars  should not be spent on pursuing demonic technology  
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you know denshian yeah okay i was friendly with  dan sheehan and admired his work taking on all  
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these crazy cases against the government  not knowing he had any interest in ufo uap  
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there was an attempt to discredit him through  stigma because of his interest in the iran contra  
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matter right with the christic institute and so  i think he was fed wrong information probably   so that he'd swing at a bad pitch and that's why i  was very interested at the weaponization of stigma  
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and whether or not you were party to  any knowledge of how that is carried  
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out so as to keep these programs no i've  never other than being the effect of them
Skinwalker Ranch
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you do want to keep things like the loch  ness monster and spoon bending away from  
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the ufo conversation if you can and there's  this tremendous force in this world to say  
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well if we're opening our minds to ufos my aunt  lived in this house that was haunted for 27 years  
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like i don't want to hear this i don't want to  listen to the fact that your aunt's house is  
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wanted now the thing that goes against what i'm  saying is something like cattle mutilation so  
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either somebody is an amazing sadistic animal  hoaxer or you have to open the uap story to  
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them communicating something by their decision to  study cattle or leave cattle as presents for us or  
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who knows what well that brings up this really  weird place called skinwalker ranch in in utah  
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i think it's the near the utah basin and you  enter you went to basin and so there's a myth  
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that involves the ute tribe fighting the  navajos and i believe the navajo is sick  
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these skin walkers these sorts of youths were  collaborating with the united states government   the navajo weren't so happy and so they cursed  this particular spot of land with skin waters  
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and the family that used to live on the land would  see tons of cattle mutilations they'd experience  
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all sorts of paranormal things bigelow buys  it bigelow is obviously very interested in the  
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you know uap phenomena and now it seems like it's  this place where they do all sorts of experiments  
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they have anomalous electromagnetic effects on the  grounds so what do you what do you make of this  
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something is wildly off this stuff is interesting  enough that it should be attracting scientists  
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and the scientists who are attracted to this  should be debunking the living crap out of this  
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if it's some dime store bs but the absence of  scientists is itself puzzling yeah partially  
34:25
due to stigma partially due to the fact that  nobody wants to get sucked into some low rent  
340
uh horror movie where two kids see a creature  in the black lagoon and they try to tell the  
345
townspeople and no one believes that yeah the  question is is the stigma manufactured or is  
34:40
the stigma sigma because all this stuff is [ __  ] we're pretty clear that's a lot of stigma is  
34:46
manufactured so the government talks about an  internal documents image cheapening and what's  
34:53
the context in which image cheapening is has been  used or famously against a woman who was a leading  
34:59
actress in hollywood named jean seberg and the  fbi is how we learned about image cheapening  
35:07
planted a story with a woman named joyce haber in  the los angeles times that the baby that she was  
35:14
carrying was in fact not her french husbands but  was in fact the baby of a black panther they drove  
35:21
her to suicide they drove her to miscarriage first  and then 10 years of suicide attempts but the   key point is our government does not necessarily  blink trying to turn your reputation into absolute  
353
garbage if you get close to its treasured sources  and methods yeah and that is not compatible  
35:40
with saying that we have something that we don't  understand menacing our military its airspace and  
35:46
our nuclear sites very strange it's hard because  it's clear that there's some element of the psyop  
35:52
here and then it's hard to sort of separate there  has to be scion there has to be because project   blue book yes and the pentagon report do not  seem to be particularly compatible in other words  
36:05
it appears that either we were lying then that  there's nothing to see yeah and we're telling the  
36:10
truth now or we're telling the truth then that  there's nothing to see and we're lying now that  
36:16
ufos are here what i find really interesting about  the blue book history is edward j rupelt was sort  
36:22
of running blue book he was an air force general  and he seemed pretty open-minded to the phenomena  
36:28
being real especially after kind of empirical  inquiry and then in 1952 something very bizarre  
365
happened which is there were a bunch of spottings  of ufo spottings around washington dc in july 1952  
36:43
and then there's a there's a caltech physicist  named h.p robertson who forms kind of a panel  
36:48
and the conclusion of the panel is basically the  government needs to systematically downplay the  
36:56
importance of the phenomena and if the public were  to know the truth it would touch off mass hysteria  
37:04
every single head of blue book from that point  forward from 52 to 69 when it ended uh became  
37:10
progressively more kind of anti-ufo and so the  question is is this you know typical cia leaked  
37:18
dock to lead us off the trail and is it [ __ ]  or um did was manufactured stigma created between  
37:26
1952 and 1969 actually blue book maybe initially  was kind of open too what happened in 1952  
373
the dc ufo sightings in in july yeah i was  going to say the oh what else the first  
37:41
h-bomb h-bomb teller yeah a tele-rule on design  yeah so the concern that i have is that in 1952  
37:51
we sent off a signal just wait just the way  when north korea detonates a nuclear device  
37:56
it sends seismic waves through the earth it can't  stop sending information outside of the country
38:05
i think in 1952 we sent a signal to the  cosmos which is that we're very very close  
38:11
to being in possession of root level knowledge to  take a software metaphor we are about to become  
38:17
root which is terrifying if you're a system  administrator that you've got a hacker that's   about to get full control of the system it's  like your edge.org question which was uh what  
38:26
happens when we discover our own source code does  something unprecedented happen there's something   unprecedented happen when man first aliens well  people didn't understand what the question was  
385
though it was the final edge question and instead  of giving an answer he asked us to give a question  
38:43
the concern that i have is that in 1952  what if there was someone there to hear  
38:49
what we said in the pacific if there was  something or someone there to hear us  
38:54
they probably heard us as saying we're  on the verge of being able to come visit
39:02
that's terrifying the stargate program which you  ran which is a government sort of psychic spy  
Stargate
39:09
program ran from 1972 to 1995 and it ended in  1995 under ed may and you know a lot of people  
39:19
after that said that it wasn't all that effective  see that's part of the uh the stigmatization well  
39:25
i was just reading skin walkers at the pentagon  you know where it talks about atip and and i guess  
392
yeah awesome these two programs uh and it  looks like remote viewing is sort of again  
398
revived i guess i don't think it ever really died  so so the question is yeah is that is that um  
39:44
creating a stigma because you're bundling in  parapsychology um which might be pseudoscience  
39:50
with the ufo stuff or or is it is there some  connection between those two things because   there seems like a lot of overlap in terms of  the people interested in the parapsychology stuff  
39:59
and the people interested in the ufo stuff as  jacquefully and eric davis put out a very nice  
40:05
paper of six levels of uap phenomena which range  all the way from nuts and bolts at the bottom  
40:12
to spiritual or metaphysical aspects at the  top and everything kind of in between uh  
40:20
can you can you break that down for us so what  are the six levels and how how are the nuts and  
40:25
bolts at all tethered to spiritual phenomena well  actually the nutsables things but then some of  
401
the consequences of the nuts and bolts things  are changes in what we call ordinary reality  
408
which people who are the effect of  might claim that that's some kind of  
40:45
paranormal thing because that's the only  word they can come up with to describe it so   there are paranormal things and then it's sort  of a gradation from there in the things that are  
40:57
purely non-physical but supposedly quote possibly  psychokinesis i have to admit i have such a strong  
41:08
visceral negative reaction and it's very  interesting because as jesse will tell you  
41:14
jesse was interested in this ufo uap stuff and  i couldn't be in the room with it i just i hated  
41:20
the topic it always felt like garbage to me and i  found out that i was apparently wrong about that  
41:26
the federal government is certainly tracking  this it doesn't make any sense to me still   that we have all these sensors and we don't have  great video all over the place i don't know how  
416
these uaps you know could possibly evade all of  the cameras that we have outside of the government  
41:44
and we have no conclusive proof but assume okay i  was wrong about that at some level because we are  
41:50
now discussing this in the open so i'm willing to  start to revise everything that is protected by my  
41:58
desire to throw up right there's this shows  the the stigma programs it was on me right  
42:06
i'm being honest and open i still carry the sense  of i cannot believe i'm sitting here discussing  
42:11
visitations from some intelligent life  that we don't understand potentially  
42:17
uh but okay so you know a scientist should be  able to consider these things and i'm not going  
42:23
to be the prisoner of the stigma but i am going  to ask you guys av lobe at harvard setting up his  
42:28
thing to pursue it but but this is a really  important question if if you could set up a ton  
423
of sensors how would we know what we're seeing at  high sample size if right now we don't know what  
429
we're seeing at low sample size and i think one  question i'd have for you where i'd challenge you  
42:45
is is is there some physics that we will figure  out in the future around certain ability around  
42:53
certain people's ability to see these things  and that sounds really pseudoscientine crazy  
43:00
but most of the people involved in the  program seem to think that there's something   around that and as far as as far as uh you know  why aren't we getting really clear pictures  
43:11
i mean i'm not i wouldn't say that that's  necessarily the case that we're not getting   you may be getting really clear but you're an  average guy with an iphone let's say the craft is  
43:21
there but it's manipulating the space-time metric  so you're just going to get fuzzy outlines because  
430
light is being bent in various ways around  the craft and so on so you're going to get  
435
a lousy picture it doesn't mean because it isn't  really there i would imagine i would be drowning  
43:42
in high quality video and it's it's a great  puzzle to me that i'm sitting here discussing  
43:47
this i can't even solve this puzzle and then  the related puzzle having to do with remote   viewing or anything like that is if i take  a materialist perspective that the world is  
43:58
created of material whose laws can be  understood and you put me in and you or say  
44:04
in two lead-lined rooms and we try to make sure  that there's no way that any of the known forces  
44:11
or matter fields can communicate you know my mind  goes to you know are we claiming that neutrinos  
44:18
are carrying the information are we claiming  that there's a new force are we claiming that um  
44:25
the world isn't material or the entanglement  is more see this is spread out and and well  
443
entanglement would be one of those things like  beaumaranov and casimir which has the appearance  
449
of being spooky right in other words if you had  a culture in which magicians possessed scientific  
44:47
knowledge they would have an edge over everyone  else because they could explain they could   predict the bone marrow and off effect see i can  i can manipulate this electron beam without even  
44:57
having any possibility of touching it right so  this gets to the issue of advanced science being  
45:04
indistinguishable from magic and then the idea  that this is in some sense held by a particular  
45:10
silos over other silos i mean as a scientist i  either want to laugh or my blood boils well i mean
45:21
that's kind of a justifiable position for  example early on in the cia remote viewing  
Psychic
450
program that i set up at sri i was asked to  check out claims of a psychic english swan ingo  
45:40
had done experiments at city college in new  york under professor gertrude schmeider she   had set up thermistors and from across the room he  could make the temperatures go up and down and so  
45:51
i took this claimed psychic invite  him out to sri to see what he could do
Cork Detector
46:02
we had the cork detector and so it was basically  a quantum chip inside a new metal magnetic  
46:08
shielding inside of steel dewar for electrical  shielding inside of superconducting shielding the  
46:15
requirement being that nothing could affect this  thing from the outside so we want to see if you   can affect it he affected it unequivocally  100 percent you had this slow oscillation  
46:26
what he did was he stopped the oscillation now  what turned out to be even more quote magical was  
464
when we asked him you know how do you know what to  do and he said well all i did was look inside and  
46:40
then he drew out how things were related inside  that never been published and it turned out that  
46:46
they were accurate and so it was when i wrote  all that up and circulated around that's when the  
46:51
cia came knocking at my doorstep and they said oh  we've been looking for you and i said you know why  
46:58
would i do he said well the russians have been  spending millions of dollars at their best   institutes with their best people for years no  scientists in america even believes there's such  
47:07
a thing as psychokinesis or esp or whatever and  you happen to do this experiment and so you know  
47:14
we graduated from there to having remote viewing  of super secret facilities and project titles  
47:21
hidden in safes that's how the whole program got  started it ended up being a 20-year 20 million  
47:28
dollar program i don't know what to make of all of  this i don't think any of this to me sounds real  
479
now that said you could imagine a one-time  backwards upgrade saying we happen to know about  
47:47
aliens for a long period we've kept it secret we  figured out the physics the physics has different  
47:53
fields we're actually able to use this we  call it psychic phenomena and so we don't   have to give our secrets away you could  imagine a complete reworking of reality  
48:02
without that real working of  reality i would say this is bs   what would what would be your best guess assuming  you think because you have levered a lot of your  
Physics and Parapsychology
48:12
life into parapsychology and you've levered a lot  of your life into physics how would you reconcile  
48:17
physics with parapsychology which i realize  is a you know a 64 million dollar question but   what would be your best guess do you have any  theory well we we it can definitely rule out  
48:27
that it's em brain waves because we put some  of our remote viewers on submarines and took  
482
them to the bottom of the ocean and we got  some of our best results in fact the remote   viewers in the submarine said boy it's really  quiet here you know so yeah i mean if i think  
48:41
about it in terms of telescopy right for every  long-range field we now have a telescope so we  
48:48
have optical and radio telescopes for photons  we have neutrino telescopes which is actually  
48:56
matter rather than force we know that  neutrinos can zip through a planet and   not even notice it was there and then we have  gravitational telescopes in the form of ligo  
49:05
and the weak force is going to be super short  range super wheat because it's effectively massive  
49:12
and we have vector scalar forces and em uh  sorry when i think about e m i'm thinking you're  
49:19
including vector and scatter potential hell yes  nobody nobody okay everybody's moved on to vector  
49:26
i don't even want to call it vector and scale  just potential they're different connections   on fiber bundles and then you have this issue of  gravitation with ligo right so we can we can pick  
496
up super long-range stuff from colliding black  holes by now measuring gravity waves gluons aren't  
49:43
going to do much for you quarks aren't going to  do much for you these are the fields that really  
49:48
give us information from distant galaxies and then  there's the question of are you talking about a   material world that we don't yet know or material  effects that is part of the material where we do  
49:59
where the somehow we have it for example i  mean you have all these but you know the usual  
50:06
issues about it not being useful to communicate  information you have this bizarre non-locality  
50:12
of entanglement but you can't use it for ftl for  faster than light communication right right so if  
50:20
two two events are space-like separated uh you're  not so far as we know there's no means of tricking  
50:29
uh an intention of controlling it  right yeah so this is what it happens  
506
well i'm i'm struggling with this to be to be  honest to say just to put it mildly and i don't  
50:42
like losing to jesse it's horrible losing him on  ufos i don't want to lose it to him a second time  
50:48
but i guess what the question is really you don't  have a lot of room to move you either have to  
50:54
postulate new physics you have to say that there  are new effects like iron off bone that we didn't  
51:00
understand during the physics that we already  know but we haven't unpacked them yet or you have   to say this isn't material that there's there  they're angels and demons and spirits that uh  
51:10
that don't conform to our understanding everything  here is bold there's nothing that simply yeah we  
51:18
we saw this effect it was robust so for me i've  looked into the stargate stuff and i've talked to  
51:24
you a decent amount my conclusion is that there is  something there and yet it feels like there are a  
510
lot of near misses as well and it seems very hard  to instrumentalize and scale up there was plenty   of times when we produced really good data and to  be fair there were plenty of times when it failed  
The Microtubule
51:40
if you don't understand the causal mechanism then  you're going to have repeatability issues and so   is there like a part of the brain like so  like the penrose thing which is probably wrong  
51:49
but you know this idea that he wrote in the  emperor's new mind that the microtubules um  
51:54
i guess that was the follow-up of the emperor's  new mind with hameroff the microtubule is our   quantum sensor that collapses the wave function  into an eigenstate yeah i have some sympathy for  
52:04
going along that direction so you think there's  some sort of quantum sensor in the in the brain   and do you have a top candidate for the specific  structure well i can't rule it out i mean they  
52:13
certainly started from a very fundamental thing is  and that is if you can get rid of consciousness by  
52:18
using an anesthetic then however you're doing  it must have something to do with consciousness  
52:24
if this effect exists why is it classified and  why is the government where is it in the stock  
521
market well there are remote viewers who use it  on the stock market so like the classic the good  
526
example is that you guys tried to start a hedge  fund you know just trading silver futures and  
52:42
you made something like 260 k and i think scaling  it beyond that seemed to be a big big challenge  
52:47
it was only a challenge because i didn't have the  time to do it i mean our particular thing i gotta
52:56
i mean i want to be polite but i also want  to be aggressive my experience with money  
53:02
tells me that you can win over any skeptic  very quickly if you can just shove millions  
53:08
of dollars into their pocket by arbitraging  their skepticism okay let me let me tell you  
53:14
how to do it and you just go do it it's really  easy actually i know some people with capital  
53:20
okay just have somebody pick a couple of objects  have them label them mark it up mark it down  
53:29
and they're going to show you the object the  following day depends on what the market does   and then you do your best to generate a  description then based on that description they  
538
can go back and the next day on the average you  get get your money we ran 70 30 instead of 50 50.  
53:47
and so it's two steps forward one step  backward two steps four what's that   that's how we downed in class that's how we  got this 260 dollars which is why did you stop  
53:58
well the reason i stopped was i was already  working uh frankly 24 hours a day on on training  
54:03
the army intelligence officers and so i was  exhausted after 30 days of doing this sorry  
54:10
but if you want to do it feel free to do it i've  told you how to do it so you can just go do it  
54:16
okay now i'm having a very surreal experience  for a large portion of the conversation  
54:24
you seem absolutely cogent coherent  well-informed well-spoken and then  
540
there's this part that just doesn't make any  effing sense and this is the part that doesn't   make any effing sense rolling up in a bugatti  to your gulf stream to fly to your island  
54:40
is a very powerful argument that you know what  you're talking about bitcoin community has been  
54:45
insulted by the economists they've been laughed  at by financiers and they have a phrase which i  
54:53
really detest but i think you need to hear it and  it's called number go up and number go up means  
54:59
that when you're talking to an esteemed professor  of economics or finance and they're telling you  
55:05
that you're an idiot and you say well why  don't you visit me at the yellowstone club   i'll i'll send the jet around for you number go  up is an incredibly powerful argument because  
55:15
of human greed and avarice okay i think we  made this point what do you think about you  
Conclusion
55:21
know when we hear that they're unidentified aerial  phenomena that's one thing but then when somebody  
55:27
like bob lazar comes out and says that he worked  at a place called s4 which is a part of area 51  
553
on alien reproduction vehicles literally reverse  engineering crashed ufos what are we supposed to  
55:40
make of things like that well i mean i'm skeptical  to the degree behind the scenes we can check on  
55:48
his clearances and so on i have reason to be  skeptical so i can't absolutely rule things out  
55:54
because everything can be manipulated sure you've  looked at the magnesium bismuth piece from roswell  
56:01
which was i guess a grandfather who was a colonel  in the roswell cleanup collection this was sort of  
56:08
left in the safe and the grandson found it you do  material analysis on this bismuth magnesium piece  
56:13
the magnesium ratios were way off i mean not even  close to being natural it can micro size wave guys  
56:23
channels you know to me only data counts have no  idea whether the story of somebody finding in his  
560
grandfather's diary and so on is true or not so  the only data i have is this piece of material  
567
and does it have any unusual properties that that  are interesting well i can check that out and i  
56:42
found out that it did have this miniaturization of  waveguide channels well below wavelength which is  
56:50
quite an accomplishment but once  you realize how many materials work   you can do that so so that was interesting  
57:06
i definitely believe that many people have  been through the experience of contact  
57:14
whether or not that's completely in their head or  a government induced hypnotic state or who knows  
57:20
what i no longer believe this is just a bunch  of people looking for attention well it's good  
57:26
that's what i'm saying that that makes it the most  interesting thing in the world because it's either   the best if you're the force ranked psyops it's  up there in terms of you know the the intersection  
576
between interesting and effective it's good how  we really appreciate you being here eric thank  
57:42
you for co-hosting you were a great uh co-host you  asked a lot of questions that i could not jesse  
57:48
i really appreciate what you're doing trying to  get this issue out in front of the public and   get it taken seriously and putting it on it you  know it's best foot forward awesome thank you  
57:58
perfect conversation though it's always very  exciting to you know delve into these things  
58:03
so yeah i think so too and i think there are  a lot of loose threads but uh to be content  
58:09
with a lot of loose threads yeah we'll  chase them all okay sounds good thanks

Best Wishes,

   Chris