The MrPreva Experiment

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admin posted this 23 March 2017

I think this is perhaps one of the most important experiments anyone could do! A huge amount of information can be learned by running this very simple experiment!

The MrPreva Experiment Circuit

Please Note: The Current's (I), add, Floyd Sweet talked about this specifically:

In the specific case of positive charges moving to the right and negative charges to the left, the effect of both actions is positive charge moving to the right.

Current to the right is: I = da+ / dt + da- / dt.


Negative electrons flowing to the left contribute to the current flowing to the right.

 

The total Current, is the Sum of the both Currents!

 

We see, 2.8 Amps (da+ / dt) + 2.3 Amps (da/ dt) = the shown: 5.1 Amps as Floyd Sweet told us.

We see a Negative Power Factor, where the Voltage (V) Current (I) are out of phase by a Degree, which results in a Negative Power Factor!

cos(theta)

Where theta is the Phase angle in Degrees. EG:

cos(180) =  -1

 

You will see there are some problems with the MrPreva Circuit, and it is explained, because, the Current (da- ) has become a Generator, or a Battery, which is the only time  Kirchhoff's Current Law does not hold in an applied situation. 

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cd_sharp posted this 25 March 2017

Here is my replication of Mr Preva experiment using a nanoperm core and some UTP cable.

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Chris posted this 26 March 2017

Cd_Sharp, this is excellent! Thank you for sharing!

Some very simple observations shot:

  • One Globe is very much brighter than the other!
  • The other Globe, although illuminated, has a lot less Current through it!

This is such an important experiment! I wish people out there could see that have not done the experiment! I have done this experiment several times and learnt a bit more each time!

I think I might re-do this experiment for the Forum also!

Some data on my Coils:


Input:
Period: 3.320
Offset: 0.160
Degrees: 17.3
Active: 2.203788426168
Apparent: 2.30821
Reactive: 0.686403717929
Power Factor: 0.9547608


L1:
Period: 3.320
Offset: 0.28
Degrees: 30.4
Active: 8.0004243646859
Apparent: 9.275707
Reactive: 4.6938212608966
Power Factor: 0.8625137


L2:
Period: 3.320
Offset: 1.72
Degrees: 186.5
Active: -6.1948770793364
Apparent: 6.234956
Reactive: -0.7058169710592
Power Factor: -0.9935719

My Turns:

L1 Turns: 175
L2 Turns: 88

   Chris

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parkham posted this 08 June 2017

Hi.  I have a few questions:

Input voltage / amps, how much?

Coil wire gauge?

What capacitor to use?

 

Also, what are each of the white blocks in your replication?  Can I see the entire picture?  Like what the wires are running to as well?  It's easier for me to see it, in addition to reading the schematic. 

Thank you,

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Chris posted this 09 June 2017

Hi.  I have a few questions:

Input voltage / amps, how much?

Coil wire gauge?

What capacitor to use?

Also, what are each of the white blocks in your replication?  Can I see the entire picture?  Like what the wires are running to as well?  It's easier for me to see it, in addition to reading the schematic. 

Thank you,

Thanks for the questions Parkham!

The Blocks: Ceramic Power Resistors, 2.2 Ohms for the big ones 10 Watts, 0.1 Ohms for the smaller resistors, 5 watts.

I just used what I had laying around. Just experiment with it till you get the best result. All my wave's measured were sine wave, so no problem with transients.

My Coil turns:

  • Turns: 175
  • Turns: 88

Note: Turns N, with Current I, equates to the Magnetic Field B, so more turns is better most of the time, just up the Voltage so more Current can flow. The reason I say this, is, its possible to have an experiment where the total Magnetic Field is in sufficient to induce an EMF across the second coil and the Input Current dominates! This means a failure!

This is such a simple experiment, and so much can be learned, if done properly! One can learn a lot about Negative Power Factor, this experiment is the basis for Electromagnetic Induction! Electrical Transformers Work on these exact same technologies!

For someone to say "This experiment does not work", is basically saying that Electromagnetic Induction does not work!

An example of this sort of stupidity:

 

This is Tinman's effort to replicate the Mr Preva Experiment. It simply is embarrassing! He is saying that Electromagnetic Induction does not work!

 

 

After a lot of Down Votes and pressure from people with brains, Tinman tried again, and still failed. Again saying Electromagnetic Induction does not work! Tinmans colleague, Itsu, has however done some excellent work! Showing that, Indeed, Electromagnetic Induction does work as has been stated for some 187 Years, and do in-fact have a valid Law in Nature, thanks to Michael Faraday:

   MrPreva replication 1 :


   MrPreva replication 2 :


   MrPreva replication 3 :


   MrPreva replication 4 :


   MrPreva replication 5 :

 

 

 

Zanzal posted this 09 June 2017

Hey Chris,

I've not tried the MrPreva experiment as I was fairly certain by looking at it that it would not function if pulsed dc was used to drive it directly (without an inverter) and I don't mess with anything AC. Can you (or anyone else) confirm this assumption?

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Chris posted this 09 June 2017

It is a RLC Resonant Circuit, the Cap and Coil Combination are tunned for RLC Resonance.

So DC Pulsing is possible, an Audio Amp driven with a Sine Function Generator is also another good way to do it, I used this method.

As long as the Cap and Coil are in RLC Resonance, then it doesn't matter what the Circuitry is. Switched DC 50% Duty will be difficult to get RLC Resonance depending on the Circuit, so the Audio Amp is a good way to go.

   Chris

parkham posted this 09 June 2017

I'll check the videos, thanks.  I was going to attempt replication using the exact figures on the first diagram - 7 turns and 11 turns before doing any further experiments.  If I do that, any suggestions on what I asked about earlier?

Chris posted this 09 June 2017

I'll check the videos, thanks.  I was going to attempt replication using the exact figures on the first diagram - 7 turns and 11 turns before doing any further experiments.  If I do that, any suggestions on what I asked about earlier?

My only suggestions, same as before:

I just used what I had laying around. Just experiment with it till you get the best result.

Learning is a ton of fun, this is still today one of my favourite experiments! So simple, so Valuable!

Please remember, Floyd Sweet said:

In the specific case of positive charges moving to the right and negative charges to the left, the effect of both actions is positive charge moving to the right.

Current to the right is: I = da+ / dt + da- / dt.


Negative electrons flowing to the left contribute to the current flowing to the right.

   Chris

Chris posted this 25 July 2017

To properly reference this thread, I would like to Cite the Reference:

Please see: The Rotary Transformer - Tinman for information on how this very simple Circuit can be used in Above Unity Applications!

We now have busted the door wide open!

   Chris

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cd_sharp posted this 27 July 2017

I came back to this experiment because I think I need to learn more about it. Here is my basic setup:

with the yellow trace from the MOSFET gate and the blue one from the drain.

 

Then I unplugged the capacitor and both lights get dimmed a little, but the effect is still there:

 

So, the capacitor is not needed for this experiment.

I was unable to obtain current traces on the two lamps. When I tried to connect the scope probes over the two sensing resistors, input current went up and both lamps become equally bright.

I'm thinking that the cause is that the capacitors in the scope probes are generating parasitic oscillation.

Any ideas on how I would be able to obtain the current traces?

Zanzal posted this 27 July 2017

I've had similar issues with my probes interfering with the circuit, so I just started using 10x and it seems to have helped with that. If your probes have a switch for a 10x setting then you might try that, just make sure your scope knows the connected probe is set to 10x (don't forget to check probe calibration after switching).

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Chris posted this 28 July 2017

Hey Cd_Sharp, Zanzal - Excellent!

Cd, nice setup! The time rate of change is key, of the Magnetic Fields, and if there is not a gradual Rate of Change then yes there can be a lot of funky stuff happen.

For example, a Sine Wave has a gradual change over time, but a Square Wave has a fast Rise and Decay time with a DC (Off Time) in between. This is where the Coils see no relative change. However in saying this, the Current in the Coils do take time to build, ramp up and this can give a similar effect. The following video is an excellent example of what I mean:

 

 

Each little rectangle under the curve is a Change in Time. Lots of small ones with small changes is a gradual Change in Time.

I hope this helps some, I found this helpful when I was studding this. This is why the Cap helped in the Brightness of the Globes...

Scope and the connection, I would only guess there may have been a Ground Loop, shorting somewhere, through the ground connection.

Your two Ground Clips need to be on the same branch. Same piece of wire at the same place. Then you should be ok, unless there is something else going on.

Something like this:

Your Globes are both different brightness's so that is an indication that the Currents are greater in one Branch that the other!

Youre right, this is a very important experiment! If there is anything to be learned, this experiment can show you! It is simple, cheap and very easy!

   Chris

Chris posted this 28 July 2017

 

Cd, Zanzal,

At any one point in time, the Coils in the MrPreva Experiment, Buck Each Other!

They Oppose!

This results in a Gain, in the local Circuit, of almost twice the Current. Try to picture the Magnetic Fields, what they are doing, the Currents, and why they Oppose... Right Hand Grip Rule...

Then look at the other devices, like Don Smith:

For some reason, we, the human mind, has a tendance to way over complicate the simple, We need to force our minds to think simply!

   Chris

 

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Zanzal posted this 28 July 2017

A couple of thoughts about this experiment:

AC appears to work better than DC. Chris mentioned time rate of change, but I think that's only part of the reason. With AC the circuit is never really "open" (maybe twice per cycle at the beginning and mid points when voltage is zero), but DC pulsed by design opens and closes the circuit and I think this reduces the effect also.

If I am remembering correctly from some weeks ago when I watched the videos, initially both lamps seem to light up about the same, but over time a reverse current builds up along one path causing that path to become a source in parallel with the main source. Not only is the current reversed, but it is self sourced meaning that it becomes its own source.

The experiment does provoke a lot of thoughts on the nature of energy. We all know Ohm's law, V = IR, but has anyone considered that V = J/C (Joules per Coulombs) which is J/C=IR, and that C=I (or Amps per second) which means this can be re-written as J=I^2R. Is V nothing but a manifestation of I^2R? (As a side note, this equation is also the same as the heat in Watts dissipated by a circuit so if you don't know it, you should memorize it for the future, you'll need it to estimate heat dissipation).

Has anyone ever considered why getting voltage is so easy, but most large voltage values are unable to move significant current. We know from the above that something must be missing. Ohm's law must be incomplete. If we can eliminate V and still be left with a missing set of behavior that can only be understood by measuring V. So what is that? V is only the current electrical pressure within the circuit in an open circuit, pressure can build so you can get high voltages even from very little pressure. You can increase the voltage using a transformer, but that voltage can't gain you any current without drawing it from the source.

So what does this have to do with Preva? Maybe nothing, but maybe the experiment proves you can break the rules temporarily even if in the end you never see that it happened unless maybe you question whether Ohm's law was broken.

Of course don't take my word for it. I've only ran the experiment once a few weeks back and on DC. At the time I ran I hadn't even considered these things and had no idea why it was important. This is just me sharing some random thoughts.

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Vasile posted this 29 July 2017

We need to force our minds to think simply!

Nice one.

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Chris posted this 29 July 2017

We need to force our minds to think simply!

Nice one.

 

Hi Vasile - Of course I mean this in the nicest possible way!

Chris

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cd_sharp posted this 31 July 2017

I moved my probes to match this scheme:

and I fed a sine wave at 10kHz to the MOSFET's gate. This is the result:

where the yellow trace is the current on the 11 turns branch (weaker) and the blue is the current on the 7 turns branch (the one with the brighter lamp, the stronger). It looks like there are moments when the weaker branch has 0 current, but the stronger one is almost continuously having current.

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Chris posted this 31 July 2017

Excellent work there Cd!

Isnt this the best experiment! It is beneficial in so many ways! With the Magic of the Ocilliscope, we can Click our Fingers and Freeze Time! When Time is Frozen, we can look at the Current, and the Coils, and we can use the Right Hand Grip Rule to see in what direction the Magnetic Fields are. You should end up with this:

 

 This is the beauty of Science, we have most of it correct, we just need to fix some mistakes, typically the assumptions made.

I too am guilty of assumptions sometimes, but I realise that my assumptions are not proof!

   Chris

cd_sharp posted this 01 August 2017

Sure, Chris I see what you mean.

Generally, the two magnetic fields are fighting each other. There are some short moments on the yellow trace where the current goes slightly negative, so the current on the weak branch partially adds to the current of the strong branch. The other way around never happens.

So, if we could make the current on the weak branch negative for more time we would have a brighter lamp on the strong branch.

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cd_sharp posted this 04 August 2017

I watched closely Itsu's first video and the coils seems to be adding the magnetic fields. Based on this I rebuilt one of my coils and the result is similar. I disconnected the bulbs because they modify the sine wave traces.

I confirm the phase drift and the current difference between the two banches:

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Chris posted this 04 August 2017

Hey CD, the Bulbs likely are pulling more current than the core can handle, the core will be saturating and as a result the globes change the Sine Wave.

The core might be a low saturation core. Its normal. The Sine wave looks like its got sharp peaks at the top and bottom and not much in between?

Really nice job CD!

 

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cd_sharp posted this 04 August 2017

In fact both coils are ccw, but moving away from each other, so they buck.

cd_sharp posted this 04 August 2017

The Sine wave looks like its got sharp peaks at the top and bottom and not much in between?

Yes. The core material is 3E25 ferrite toroid and you are probably right about the saturation. I'll try with some smaller bulbs.

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Chris posted this 12 August 2017

Another successful replication of the MR Preva Experiment from someone we are all familiar with: TheOldScientist

 

 

If you think careful about the Currents an how this device needs to be in RLC Resonance you will see something really amazing!

When the Coils are in RLC Resonance the current in each coil has a propagation relationship. This as pointed out in the title. Wave Propagation theory is well worth studding. This will make more sense after the video:

.

 

When the Wave propagates, there must be 1/2 Wave Length as mentioned in the video, for efficient Wave propagation.

   Chris

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cd_sharp posted this 13 August 2017

When the Coils are in RLC Resonance the current in each coil has a propagation relationship.

The formula is:

                        f = 1 / 2 x ᴨ x sqrt( L x C ).

But in this case we have two coils, so we have L1 and L2. Which value should we use?

When the Wave propagates, there must be 1/2 Wave Length as mentioned in the video

Is it about the length of the wire? Or is it about the number of turns? When scaled up to hundreds of turns we end up with several layers and the number of turns ratio does not keep up with the length of the wire.

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Chris posted this 13 August 2017

Hi CD - Very interesting question with some more interesting results!

Some rough math on my setup above, shown below:

L1: 31.8mH
F = 1/2 Pi Sqrt(L C) = 1 /  2 * 3.14159265358979 * 0.00069065186599328 = 230.44 Hertz, So our result is not far away, including the Damping Factor ζ (zeta) 297 Hertz


L2: 16.6mH
F = 1/2 Pi Sqrt(L C) = 1 /  2 * 3.14159265358979 * 0.000498998997994986 = 318.948422204035 Hertz

I simply did not take this far enough, this was quick and dirty guesses with no verifications at all. I did not check L1 - L2 = Lprime as the Inductance for the equation, although I should have...

Why should I have done that? Because each Inductance will cancel... Maybe we could do this here?

Either way, we are still some ways out from the resonant frequency even with the Damping Factor.

Edit: Oddly, if I half each inductance, then add the two, I get: 264.16Hz

   Chris

alohalaoha posted this 13 August 2017

Successful replication by Kirill Anashenkov  - 30W ferroresonance flash-light with same type of MR.PREVA coils inside ferro-resonant pot. Device has worked whole night and finaly burnt from primary coil to components. Seems energy time dependent like Sweet vta and Stiven Mark - tpu. Correct schematic is in Kirill's video.

Сердечники из магнитных материалов

https://lib.chipdip.ru/245/DOC000245900.pdf

Основные характеристики магнитомягких ферритов

https://lib.chipdip.ru/245/DOC000245902.pdf

 

p/s. Автор Кирилл АНАШЕНКОВ:
"Это называется ферро-резонансом сердечника. Действует контур L1-L2. Конденсаторы желательно подобрать ближе по значению (электролиты). Вначале горел не долго-пару минут. Затем поднимал кондер 100 пФ, и менял обмотки-тем самым добиваясь наилучшего (максимального) - но неискаженного отношения частоты-амплитуды на нижнем электролите. После запуска левая половина схемы с ТЛ494 - не работает уже. Дроссель служит от изоляции синдрома 50 герц. Далее светил час, а потом добился большего - оставил на ночь... и трансформатор сгорел (первичка). Далее,в томительном ожидании деталей с Китая,забросил это дело на время. По всн у мея сдвиг на Теслу."

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alohalaoha posted this 17 August 2017

high jump MR.PREVA

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anothercat posted this 05 November 2017

Hey guys,

I would like to point out that in the following video it's exactly the same phenomenon with slight differences:

 

I guess that the 2 secondaries are in bucking mode...

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Chris posted this 05 November 2017

Hello Anothercat and Welcome!

Excellent Video thank you for sharing!

   Chris

blackboarddd posted this 06 November 2017

Hello everybody, maybe mine is a silly question but are the two coils wound in opposite directions?

Thank you

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Chris posted this 06 November 2017

Hello and welcome Blackboarddd!

By experimenting with the Coil winding direction, you will find there is one way that works best in this configuration. I suggest increasing the turns to a greater number, making a little more work, but it is easier to get a result and learn from this very valuable experiment.

The Magnetic Field (B), changing in time (dt) in the proximity to the Turns (N) is the catalyst for Electromagnetic Induction. With Few Turns one will need a great Magnetic Field at High Frequency.

   Chris

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Wistiti posted this 06 November 2017

Hi Blackboarddd! Don’t worry to ask; there is no silly question!

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blackboarddd posted this 06 November 2017

Thank you for your welcome and answers!

Can't wait to start testing, anyway my guess is the windings should be opposite...

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Zanzal posted this 06 November 2017

Can't wait to start testing, anyway my guess is the windings should be opposite...

Yes, the windings in the Mr. Preva setup oppose. IMO, this experiment works much better with AC than it does with DC.. Pulsed DC results are a little fickle and while you'll still see one lamp brighter than the other, it may be harder to measure what's going on or determine if you are in resonance. With AC it will be much more obvious and you'll see the two coils are completely out of phase (when in resonance).

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blackboarddd posted this 07 November 2017

Thank you Zanzal for the hint. Which core material do you suggest to use for the inductor?

Regards

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Zanzal posted this 07 November 2017

Thank you Zanzal for the hint. Which core material do you suggest to use for the inductor?

I think some of the videos the core was said to be nanoperm. I've not personally tried successive testing with the same setup varying only the core material so I've got no insight into it.

Chris has recommended others to use whatever they have handy - this is the best advice I could offer you. I've asked Chris several different times and different ways and what I've learned from him is that there are no magic core materials but there are sometimes bad core materials that can cause an experiment to fail. If you have trouble with one core material, you might document it and try another.

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Wistiti posted this 3 weeks ago

Hi team!

I have find a simple to build device that use the same concetp...

http://overunity.com/12487/simple-to-build-isolation-transformer-that-consumes-less-power-than-it-gives-out/#.WhV-mWeotaQ

Does someone here have already replicate it? I think i will give it a try when the time permit...

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Chris posted this 3 weeks ago

Hey Wistiti - I have build variants as you know. Youre right, this device is very similar to the Mr Preva Experiment:

 

Voltage is a quantity, as is Current, Electromagnetic Induction is a process that Transforms Voltage and Current. However, as we both know, this is not terminology that accurately describes the process!

Electromagnetic Induction produces a quantity of Voltage, which is E.M.F, Electromotive Force, it "Generates" or Pumps Voltage and therefore Current in the Second Coil. But this is not even entirely correct! Because this is a One to One process, less losses, we will always see a drop in total power. The Losses need to be over come by the Excess "Generation" or Pumping of Voltage and Current.

Current is Magnetomotive Force, M.M.F, and this Force needs to be off balanced by an Opposite force, to counter the One to One ratio less losses. In other words a Asymmetrical System instead of a Symmetrical System!

This is an old video, it was a year or so old when I posted it to YouTube. Its some of my early work:

 

Moving from a Square wave to a Sinusoidal wave is a start to seeing Energy Generation.

This is all stuff you already know, but for the other readers, they may find it useful.

   Chris

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