Madscientist's Non-Inductive Coil Replication

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Madscientist posted this 25 April 2023

Hello iam trying to test this circuit presented in the video non conductive coil experiment video six and seven,

IMG_20230425_145628_571

Input power

IMG_20230425_134040_611

setup

IMG_20230425_140917_546

channel one on the scope is the current through L1 and channel 2 is the current through L2, iam pulsing L1 with a mosfet from a squarewave of around 90 khz and 18% dutycycle. Iam seein a sawtooth waveform on L2 

IMG_20230425_140944_613


Yellow trace is the voltage over ther 2 ohm resistor on L2 and purple trace is the voltage over the 2 ohm resistor on L3. In other words currents throug the partnered output coils.

Iam studying the currents they seem to be almost 180 degrees out of phase according to my scope shot, the problem is the currents are not equal. The current through L2 is twice the current through L3. Please advise

Thanks again for sharing knowledge

Br.

Madscientist

 

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Chris posted this 11 September 2024

Hey MS,

I think you may have taken a step backwards:

 

Like you had, you need straight lines, the Curves:

 

Indicate a polarity problem.

Please review the thread, there is enough here to get you on the right track. Maybe even review the videos, and the replications.

Most important, please don't give up! We will help best we can!

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Madscientist posted this 11 September 2024

Like you had, you need straight lines, the Curves:

 

Indicate a polarity problem.

Please review the thread, there is enough here to get you on the right track. Maybe even review the videos, and the replications.

Most important, please don't give up! We will help best we can!

Thanks Chris for the motivation,

In the scopeshot above, yellow trace is the voltage over the bulb and purple trace is the voltage over the current sensing resistor on L3.

i tried linking a youtube video link about my recent post ut it doesnt show in the post, the video may how some more information on the experiment in the recent post. i will try posting the video again and see.

 

Madscientist posted this 20 October 2024

Delayed conduction on L3 (POC2). (Chris's non inductive coil experiment replication).


Hello friends, I want to share some experiment on this topic, I have been  reading and all the information I came across in the threads timing and Delayed induction with a goal to get voltages up on my partnered output coils.

My thoughts are that timing can help  in creating a "delay in conduction" which will lead to "delayed induction" and thus get the voltages up on L2 and L3.
Just an update, I have swapped my 555 timer  pulse generator with adrino uno, its much better and can do more than just a single chip.

I came across this project online and studied it, i was conviced this can make me achieve the delayed conduction on my pulses too. the only challenge is that my pulses are 10% dutycycle. And as you see in the gif below their pulses are 50% dutycycle. 

https://runtimemicro.com/Projects/Arduino-Timer-Phase-Shifted-Square-Waves 

 

Back to my pulses.

I have 2 pulses here, "Yellow trace "for the IGBT switching L1 and the second pulse "Purple trace" is for the mosfet switching L3.

When these 2 pulses are in phase, "input current drop effect" is still present but  gets better when a small controlled delay is present.

The goal here is to delay the pulse switching L3 "Purple trace" by a small angle slowly increasing the angle until the sweet spot is reached, (Input current drop effect and the effect on the lightbulb are both improved).

I made some minor changes in the code and i gained some control of the phase angle/delay.

What in noticed is if the delay increases the amplitude of the sawtooth wave, as the phase angle between these 2 pulses increases, the amplitude of the sawtooth wave also increases.

Below is a 5 degree delay between the 2 pulses.

Up close; This translates to a delay of 10 microseconds which gives a good " input current drop effect" .

The result here is that the "effect" is present and incresed abit but i see no increase in voltages on the partnered output coils, please advise. 

Br,

Madscientist

FringeIdeas posted this 21 October 2024

Hey Madscientist!

Nice little project, I love messing with the microcontrollers.

I believe the point of delayed conduction is to only delay one (or both?) of the POC coils to give them a chance to get the volages up. If I understand what you have shown above, your mosfet for your POC coil is being turned off around the same time as the input. Meaning your POC coil cannot run a current during the sawtooth wave time if the mosfet doesn't remain open during that time. So maybe play with the on time delay of it, and leave that purple pulse on all the way to the end of the sawtooth?

I must admit, I have not played with this idea enough. A little tinkering but went back to the basic setup. Nice to see someone giving it some investigation.

Marcel

Adam posted this 21 October 2024

Hey Madscientist,

 

I will tell you I went down a big rabbit hole on this one “Delayed conduction” for about a year doing the same thing you are. Trying to delay the conduction of POC1 using a switch until the voltage rises then let it conduct. I have the same scope shots of moving the trigger signal but had no success in the end.

 

The thread Delayed Conduction as far as I understand now is not a good thread as is redirects you on a path that will not work. I would work on  just getting the coils to buck and then figure out how to get the voltage up other ways just like a generator does.

 

I honestly think Chris should just delete that thread Delayed Conduction as it is misleading at least it was for me. Time could be better spent other places.

 

Take a look at Chris’s last post to me on that thread.

 

He states:

 

Hello Adam,

This thread has not been very successful at pointing out what I meant to point out.

Everyone needs to think in terms of a "Lead up to the main event" so what was said, or explained in earlier threads, is meant for a more board result in the end. Gotta look at the bigger picture.

The point I meant to get to was:

There is a natural delay in Conduction from the Input Coil to POCTwo.

 

Here is how this works:

  1. Input Coil is switched on - Changing Current in Time!
  2. POCOne Conducts and a Voltage builds.
  3. POCOne's current builds as the Voltage Builds - Changing Current in Time!
  4. Sufficient Voltage is "Generated" in POCTwo, to now conduct, via the Diode, which was not shown at the time of this thread.
  5. Voltage keeps building in POCOne and POCTwo, until peak Voltage is reached.
  6. Your Input Coil is switched off at this point.
  7. POCOne and POCTwo's voltage decay over time.

 

When you do these experiments, you will see, there is a Natural Delay for all of these processes to take place! This is what stops these machines from effectively Running Away on themselves and gives us control over the process, with an external Frequency!

END.

 

If I am incorrect on this Chris please comment. He states there is a natural Delay meaning you don't need to Delay it. I just don’t want you to go down the same hole I did and waste a tone of time almost a year for me. Voltage can be increased many other ways and I will go over some of them very soon!

Hope this helps.

Adam.

 

 

Chris posted this 21 October 2024

My Friends,

Yes, Adam is correct! When he states:

He states there is a natural Delay meaning you don't need to Delay it. I just don’t want you to go down the same hole I did and waste a tone of time almost a year for me. Voltage can be increased many other ways and I will go over some of them very soon!

 

Adam is 100% correct!

There is a natural delay in Conduction, from Input Coil TOn, to POCTwo Diode Conduct. You can see this delay on the scope if you're looking for it.

Adam has come a long way in a short time, I am very impressed with his skills and his effort to help others! As I am with Marcel also! Others are coming along very nicely also, so they also need a mention!

Re:

The thread Delayed Conduction as far as I understand now is not a good thread as is redirects you on a path that will not work. I would work on  just getting the coils to buck and then figure out how to get the voltage up other ways just like a generator does.

 

I honestly think Chris should just delete that thread Delayed Conduction as it is misleading at least it was for me. Time could be better spent other places.

 

Yes, there seems to be a lot of confusion, I will think on this and take the advice onboard. Thanks!

Well done everyone! Thank You all so much, little old me, sharing a few experiments, who would have thought this would have grown into this Big Family of like minded people, all with the same goals and hopes.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Madscientist posted this 22 October 2024

Hello friends,

thanks for all your advice,  Adam thanks for information and Chris thanks for confirming Adams message, I was beginning to get confused. I will investigate other ways of reaching the goal.

Marcel I was thinking about your statements, I believe  that this picture is what you mean?

Its good that you love messing with microcontrollers, i have very little experience with microcontrollers and coding is my weakness. 

i will ask you for some input soon.

I will try this  and as the last experiment on this topic. I will now investigate other ways of getting the voltages up.

Br.

Madscientist.

 

 

 

 

FringeIdeas posted this 22 October 2024

Madscientist,

Yes your drwaing is about what I meant. So we would want to manage the output's point of rise time, but leave it on and let it finish out all the rest of the cycle.

Though to be honest I only messed around with this idea a little and was getting nowhere and felt like I was off track so I abandoned the idea until further notice.

This, what Adam mentioned just above..

Hello Adam,

This thread has not been very successful at pointing out what I meant to point out.

Everyone needs to think in terms of a "Lead up to the main event" so what was said, or explained in earlier threads, is meant for a more board result in the end. Gotta look at the bigger picture.

The point I meant to get to was:

There is a natural delay in Conduction from the Input Coil to POCTwo.

I was actually going to mention this, but I could not for the life of me remember where Chris had wrote that. 😁

Thanks Adam!

Regarding the microcontrollers. You picked a good one to start with if you are new to the scene. Should be relatively easy to work with. And sure, I'm available to help if you need something, just ping me.

Marcel

ISLab posted this 03 November 2024

He states there is a natural Delay meaning you don't need to Delay it. I just don’t want you to go down the same hole I did and waste a tone of time almost a year for me. Voltage can be increased many other ways and I will go over some of them very soon!

 

Adam is 100% correct!

There is a natural delay in Conduction, from Input Coil TOn, to POCTwo Diode Conduct. You can see this delay on the scope if you're looking for it.

The thread Delayed Conduction as far as I understand now is not a good thread as is redirects you on a path that will not work. I would work on  just getting the coils to buck and then figure out how to get the voltage up other ways just like a generator does.

 

I honestly think Chris should just delete that thread Delayed Conduction as it is misleading at least it was for me. Time could be better spent other places.

 

Yes, there seems to be a lot of confusion, I will think on this and take the advice onboard. Thanks!

Chris

Hi Adam,

As I understood this: a) the natural delay is what we have to "catch" and use to switch on L3 at that natural point, and then b) keep it on for the rest of the cycle. We need to actively use the natural delay point for switching -- not ignore it.

It looks like your misunderstanding of what has to be done may have led you off-track. The last image for the L3 coil switching that you shared in response to Marcel is correct.

Actually the Delayed Conduction thread is one of the most important. I only recently re-read it and found so many very precious insights and guidelines that I had missed or forgotten from earlier. Chris, please do not ever delete that thread!

I hope to post some experiments based on that info soon. Hopefully its value will be obvious then.

Madscientist posted this 3 weeks ago

Hello friends, I have been experimenting with partnered output coils for a while, and iam still investigating on how to improve on this effect.

 

 

  It's the same circuit, "Chris's circuit" and I have made some minor changes on my coils, using thicker wires little noticeable results but when I hooked up a 25W 250V light bulb, i noticed some increase in input current drop at a specific frequency around 100khz.  

 

I did not get a good sawtooth wave in this experiment, but i was paying more attention to the "input current drop effect" on the power supply and and the load on L2 which is an incandescent bulb scavenged from an old microwave oven. And i noticed something similar to a standing wave pattern on my scope  on L2 And L3.    

 

The effect is improved alot with this load; the input current drops by 1 amp and the bulb brightens when L3 is switched on. I noticed that every machine has a specific load that it works best with. Iam still investigating on ways to get the input current to drop even lower. Chris and the team thanks again for sharing your knowledge on this, the more i learn the hunger i get for more.  

Br,  

Madscientist

Chris posted this 3 weeks ago

Hey MadScientist,

Thanks for sharing! Coming along nice! Good work there!

Your statement:

and iam still investigating on how to improve on this effect.

 

This is a very important thing for all researchers to ask!

Floyd Sweet made a very important statement:

We are all familiar with AM and FM propagation, where in the case as AM, the voltage amplitude varies, and with FM, the frequency is modulated. However, the output power sees a constant load impedance, that of the matched antenna system. If this changes, the input to the antenna is mismatched, and standing waves are generated resulting in a loss of power.

 

NOTE: The issue of confusion arises here because there is a difference between Standing Waves in a Single Wire and also the difference of an Electrical Standing Wave and a Magnetic Standing Wave. We need to have a Standing wave occur, but not in the same wire!

If you read this carefully:

If the directions of the two signals are such that opposite H-fields cancel and E-fields add, an apparently steady E-field will be created. The energy density of the fields remain as calculated above, but the value of the E-field will double from E/2 to E. It is a simple matter using the equations E/H = √με and C = 1/√με for a team wave to get rid of H and C and so convert the first equation into the well known equation for energy density in the so-called electrostatic field: 

 

You will see Floyd Sweet refers to a Team Wave, which is the same as a Standing Wave, but under different underlaying conditions!

In each Wire, POCOne being one Wire and POCTwo being the Second Wire, each Wire has what I call Antenna Resonance, where the Length of the Wire requires exactly 1/2 Wave Length, and at Resonance, one end will be Peak Positive and the other end will be Peak Negative.

Between the Two Coils, each POC, there is a Magnetic Resonance, which means each POC is 180 degrees out of phase, Magnetic Fields Opposing, so, using the Right Hand Grip Rule, we will have Each Peak Voltage Difference is opposite. This we have already shown in experiments.

Its important, we must find the Magnetic Resonance, basically: 

Use the Formula:

  • Approximate Formula: Length (meters) = 143 / f (MHz) ( 1/4 Wavelength ) 142.65 is more accurate! NOTE, this is not Half Wave!
  • More Precise Formula: Length (meters) = 300 / f (MHz) ( Full Wavelength )

 

Example: 

  • 143 / 0.003 = 47,666.67 Meters

 

This is not a very useful example, because 47,666.67 Meters of wire on POCOne and POCTwo is simply not practical!

A better number would be 30 meters for example! So rearranging the equation gives us: f (MHz) = 143 / meters = 143 / 30 = 4.77 MHz, and the 4th harmonic is 4.77MHz x 4 = 19.08MHz and the length of this coil, your Input Coil, will be: 143 / 19.08MHz = 7.49 meters. 

 

Tom Bearden said:

 

Hmm, Over Gain One, at Resonance... Yes Sir, we have seen this already.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

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