Reliable and Flexible Switching System

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Chris posted this 30 September 2017

A Reliable and Flexible Switching System is second to none, it is the most important piece of Hardware one could have on your bench!

I was lucky enough to share some data with a friend that had worked on this same concept with one of his friends, Back then, the idea was called the: Quadratron

 

Funny enough TheOldScientist has done some videos on this:

 

I have also build a few versions of my own inception of the: Quadratron which is now called IPC-quadra

 

Version One:

 

Version Two:

 

 

I have another H Bridge I use also, this is not related to the Quadratron. It is a Custom Built, Salvaged from an Old UPS, 3000VA:

 

I think it is important to not, this is very handy, but its not a necessity, cheaper and easier options exist. EBay has some good options. Variable Frequency and Duty Cycle are the absolute most important.

High Voltage and Current is not necessary.

I personally find a Microcontroller is a good cheap option! Easy to use, Plug and Play if you don't mind the pun! I have built all my own software:

 

I think if we combined our skills, we as a team could come up with a community based project that is better and cheaper than all options presented!

China could do cheap PCB's, We could build our own software!

We could find a cheap Microcontroller.

Let me know if you're keen to look into this!

   Chris 

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Chris posted this 01 October 2017

For those that are not in the know, a System like this, a Custom, or a Reliable and Flexible Switching System, will allow you to set a Frequency and a Duty Cycle easily and quickly!

The Microcontroller: 

 

All controlled from your computer or laptop:

 

 

Or:

 

 

All done very easily, a GUI that can be easily customised! Simply scroll your Mouse Wheel and the Frequency or Duty Cycle is changed.

Alas, no good for cooking Sausages!

   Chris

Zanzal posted this 04 October 2017

Were you considering a DIY kit, or a retail item to be sold, or a how-to instructable for people to build their own? I'm all for using knowledge to build useful and exciting products. 

If you are looking for ideas: a tiny OLED screen, a few rotary encoders, and an ESP-32S would be a fairly cheap way to go. Simplify the circuitry by using opto-mosfet drivers (FOD3180 for example). The wifi on the ESP-32S means that a web interface could be added with one of the two cores for signal generation. Add a 3D printed case and a 5V wall adapter.

Chris posted this 04 October 2017

Hi Zanzal, not sure yet.

The Circuit above is not mine to sell, so I will have to come up with something different.

A small plug and play board would be nice, easy for people to get started.

WiFi has trouble with this sort off thing, the work we are doing, there are frequencies that take out the WiFi and the device becomes unresponsive. So, although a good idea, its a bit hard to incorporate.

Yes a oled would be a good idea!

   Chris

Chris posted this 07 October 2017

Hey CD, a good Reliable Switching System is a real handy tool for sure.

I would like to point out, AC and DC both work and both work equally well, but under different circumstances. AC, however, is much better in the Mr Preva Experiment.

In different Systems, the geometry might be quite different, but the basic under laying processes the same.

For example, we have recently covered how the similarity's are very much the same between the MIT of Graham Gunderson and the 30 Watt Lantern of Akula. Although they are quite different in how they get to the end result, they both get to the same end result.

The Some Coils Buck and some Coils DONT Thread covers a huge amount of the reason behind why I am pointing this out.

Graham Gunderson gave us his Timing Cycle, as did Akula, this is where we should be looking, connecting the dots and making the connections to an Excess in Electromagnetic Induction. In other words Asymmetrical Electromagnetic Induction.

  • AC, a Sinusoidal Wave is a continuous gradual Change over Time
  • DC, Square Wave is a sharp, Transient, then with long periods of no change over Time (DC).

But from the early days of the Andrey Melnichenko GLED, Akula 30 Watt Lantern and through to Ruslans Lantern, DC was used.

Graham Gunderson uses AC to get the same end result.

Years ago, I published a schematic: (Circuit and Layout)

 

With the following waveform: (Scope Shot - Yellow is Current Input - Red is Voltage Output)

 

Over at "Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator", this was one of my early break throughs. (April 17, 2014) after already knowing about Bucking Coils and how Electromagnetic Induction worked. This was a super important experiment in learning just a little more in my learning curve! Thus the reason I published it!

Why was it a breakthrough? The polarity of the pulsed Coil flips, according to the Dot Notation, thus the Coils then Buck, Energy is then "Generated" as a result of the basic requirements of Faradays Law.

Not a single soul realised this, replicated to see what I was saying... OU.com is full of the same simplicity's it was at its inception, circling in unending circles of nothingness...

I hope this makes sense?

   Chris

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Chris posted this 07 October 2017

Hey CD, if I may, and with your already good knowledge on the Akula 30 W Lantern, suggest that this might be a good path to stay on?

Yes, a pseudo schematic, incomplete for simplicity.

With my recent experiments, Some Coils Buck and some Coils DONT, that was leading up to the Lantern anyway! This should help you along the way. Perhaps replicating my experiments, with simple stuff, a few simple coils, look at the effects, and maximise on these effects, this will be very much more productive than building the entire thing and then finding it does not work. The Circuit is secondary, this is only a Signal to the Mosfet...

What's really important is to see and understand the Coil Interactions! As we saw in the Mr Preva Experiment.

What I have shared is nearly there, its the start to the next step, after your excellent Mr Preva Experiments, you will see where I was heading, in the direction I was heading, I hope?

As we know, from the Mr Preva Experiments, we saw Electromagnetic Induction at its most basic, fundamental levels, but it did take a little work.

Does your FG support the Duty Cycle Adjustment? If so, what's the supported duty cycle range?

My H-Bridges are all Microcontroller driven, one has a H-Bridge IC which there are many of them today. I can share my code, but the Microcontrollers are no longer being made.

The goal of this thread was to get everyone to decide on a Microcontroller, Code it, and then look at a hardware solution as I have shown above. But only better.

To answer your questions, Q1-4 were driven by a circuit like was shown above:

 

I have 4 of them side by side, controlled by a Microcontroller. Q1 and Q3 are on and Q2 and Q3 are off, then this flips, 180 degrees out of phase. You're Right. This creates an Alternating, Direct Current Switching Cycle.

   Chris

 

Chris posted this 08 October 2017

Were getting off topic and should move our conversation to the Akula's 30 W lantern Thread,

Most of the Akula Circuitry is to drive the Mosfet, he uses the Term Transistor. Not Mosfet.

Which is what we are looking at here in this Thread. The optimum and easiest, flexible configuration to produce a wide range of Wave forms.

It is the Interactions in the Coils, and between the Coils that needs attention.

   Chris

 

devesh posted this 10 November 2017

Hallo guys, I'm not absolutely sure to have correctly understood the meaning of this thread...may you please confirm - or negate - my understanding? 

The need is to produce two square wave signals, which have to be exactly the opposite each other; moreover the duty cycle and the frequency have to be variable but the two signals have to be in sync (mirrored on a scope trace). Right?

If this is the point, I have built a very, very stupid circuit using a dual MOSFET, low side, driver: the MCP14E8 (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/25006A.pdf) which has one straight and one inverting output, to be used to drive the gates of two independent MOSFETs so, connecting in parallel the two input pins and feeding them with a common FG (which can be an Arduino Nano or any kind of small microcontroller), we can drive our bucking coils and make all the test we want.

Depending on the work frequency, and the test voltage, one has only to choose the correct switching devices (IGBTs for the working frequencies below 100KHz, MOSFETs if the frequency should be higher) and their maximum operating ranges.

What I see here very important, in my immense ignorance, is the sharpness of the pulses (rise/fall times) and the material used as the common core of the bucking coils (nanoperm, iron powder, nanocrystalline multilayer, Metglas)... I thinks, also, that the inductance of the bucking coils should be different but the wire mass identical. 

Last, the bore (inner hole) of one of the two coil should be huge - say, more than 10/15cm - where the other should be a quarter - say 2/3cm -. The core, accordingly, should not be regular in its shape but bigger on one side and smaller on another side, preferably a toroid. 

 Let me know if the above is what is needed and I will post the stupid schematic which I built months ago on a breadboard.

 

Chris posted this 10 November 2017

Hi Devesh - The intention is to possesses a Reliable and Flexible Switching System.

  • Adjustable Frequency
  • Adjustable Duty Cycle

The idea is to switch any sort of wave form easily, cheaply and quickly.in any format, H-Bridge, Half H-Bridge or single Mosfet Driver.

An entirely flexible system for multi purpose experiments.

The H-Bridge is the most efficient switching that one can employ, it is fast becoming the system of choice for many applications.

   Chris

devesh posted this 10 November 2017

Ah, ok...so not specifically related to the bucking coils tests. Understood. You said "any sort of waveform", mmmhhhh... As per my little knowledge switching AC, especially in the high power applications, we have to use back-to-back MOSFETs arrangements or make use of TRIACS: these two alternative components need a different kind of driving strategy so I can't imagine, at the moment, an all-in-one device so flexible which will be able to drive a so wide range of switching components... Maybe the quadratron does exactly this work: I have to study it deeply.

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Chris posted this 19 September 2018

My Friends,

For completeness, and for others looking I want to share information from this topic.

I have said it before, my Electronics skills are very average and I only know enough to be Dangerous, for this reason, simplicity is a very important concept! 

Why use a Mosfet Driver:

  • Isolate the Microcontroller from high Voltage high Current sources.
  • Microcontrollers are normally 3.3 to 5 Volts output. This is not enough to reliably switch most Mosfets. Normally in the range of around 3 - 10 volts are required. See datasheet: Gate Threshold Voltage, 3 Volts normally wouldn't turn the Mosfet on correctly.
  • Ensure the Mosfet is turned on and also off correctly.
  • Other reasons also...

 

For good reliable switching, a Mosfet Driver can be utilised. I have shown above a circuit I have used that a friend shared with me, that used the MCP1403 Integrated Circuit:

 

 

Sometimes you might see a home made Mosfet Driver, using a Push Pull Transistor Array, NPN and PNP Pair. I have not had a lot of success with these arrangements, found then a little tricky and found my time spent elsewhere can be a lot more productive. These arrays may look like Akula's Circuits:

 

 

Seen above, back to back on the lower negative rail. switching the KT805AM Transistor via the Resistor Capacitor filter Circuit.

A Mosfet Driver is cheap and very simple to implement, I have shown below that only a few minutes can have an operational circuit with only a few components:

 

 

 

Using Microcontrollers that are .NETMF Ported, it is very easy to get a simple PWM Signal:

Microsoft.SPOT.Hardware.PWM MyPWM = new PWM(Cpu.PWMChannel.PWM_4, 2, 0.01, true);

All that's required is to import the Microsoft dll: 

C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft .NET Micro Framework\v4.3\Assemblies\le\Microsoft.SPOT.Hardware.PWM.dll

One can then very easily Start the PWM using:

MyPWM.Start();

And to Stop the PWM:

MyPWM.Stop();

 

Please note: What I have shown above is not necessary to start off! Start with a simple breadboard as I have shown, a $3 Driver and a few resistors. Cheap Simple and easy!

We have a full section for Microcontrollers, and cover a vast range of Microcontroller's. Use the section, ask questions, someone will try to help as soon as possible!

Using a Microcontroller is a HUGE benefit, however there are some speed limitations. Microcontrollers are not Magic Yet!

   Chris

John12 posted this 19 September 2018

Hello Chris and group,

Apologies you state the microcontroller can you elaborate on the Make/Model and any other components/accessories, their make and models 

Question:

Would old core memory allow this kind of switching old school (yes I am electronics pre newbie) working on it...

Thank you

 

 

 

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Chris posted this 19 September 2018

Hey John12,

I guess it could under the right conditions.

The main topic is the Reliable and Flexible control of either Mosfets or Transistors for the dedicated Inductive Switching. An area lacking for us in the Research Field.

   Chris

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Vidura posted this 20 September 2018

Related to this thread I would like to post some experiences and ideas. I have used custom made pwm generator s with microcontrollers and analogue ic, both have there advantages and drawbacks. Microcontrollers are accurate, can be clocked with crystals, and have very flexible programable adjustments and operating modes, a drawback is the limited resolution of duty cycle and frequency, and a kind of rippeling when scrolling . In contrast the analog ICs have virtually infinite resolution in frequency and duty cycle, although at the cost of less stability and flexibility. A few months ago I decided to purchase a function generator, a useful tool for electronic works, but regarding the pwm-square wave mode I am not at all convinced that it is the best solution. There might be better devices available, but the one I bought is have only one rotary encoder, so for every change of a parameter I have to change the selected mode , the decimal range etc, which is quite impractical.So I prefer the simple pwm with two variable resistors , where I can adjust frequency and duty cycle simultaneously, and sweep throu the range quickly. So I was thinking about how to unify the advantages of the microcontrollers and the analogue IC. I found some microcontrollers with NCO , a numerical controled oscillator, which have an excellent resolution and accuracy, combined with the flexibility of a programmable MC. When I have something elaborate I will post here or in the microcontroller section.

Chris posted this 20 September 2018

Hey Vidura,

Excellent Post! You taught me something valuable Thank You!

All members have access to the Microcontroller section now. Please let me know if there are any problems accessing or posting.

   Chris

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Chris posted this 03 December 2019

My Friends,

In part of my development, of PCB's and microcontroller driven PWM, I have a new version, one that is still in its very early stages but is a lot different from my board above, again displayed here:

 

 

My new version, here:

 

NOTE: This board is still in Development Stage, no warranty's or guarantees can be given. Already I have made a few very minor changes for the next version of the board.

ALSO NOTE: This new PCB is based on the above Circuit, shown again here:

 

You will see, there are some significant changes:

  • Protect the Gate from Bounce, from the negative Rail.
  • Separated Power for each Channel
  • and a few other things.

 

I have three PCB's to give away.

The three people I have chosen for sharing their work are:

 

For those out there, if they want to sponsor this endeavour, I can put your logo on the board. Contact me via PM and we can work something out.

   Chris

 

P.S: The MCP1403, is no longer stocked at element14, a chip with the same Pin Out and characteristics will need to be sourced, or another supplier will need to be found. I managed to find some at Mouser Electronics. The opposite is true for the IL610. The RK-0515S is easy to find still. Be careful of the layout, don't purchase until you have checked the sizes. I am sorry, I don't have enough to share.

 

Single Channel list, x4 to get 4 Channel:

 

Of course I have also put a large Diode across the Drain Source of the Mosfet, just use whats suitable. High Current at a decent Voltage.

NOTE: At all other Readers, if you would like to purchase a Board to build yourself, please let me know. I must let you know, the components are not cheap, there is some investment in these boards.

Vidura's PWM Board might be a good option for Signal Source, where G = Ground and P = PWM Source or Signal Source.

Atti posted this 04 December 2019

Hey Chris, that's a nice gesture.

thaelin posted this 04 December 2019

Hi Chris:

   Following this with great interest. I am in the make of a sig gen that was published in Radio Electronics and has some very good aspects. It doesn't have the versatility of what you are sharing here. I have sourced all of the parts except the IL 610 as well. Have you considered the use of optical isolation in this unit? I have in the past used light triggered transistors and had very good luck on the switching times. I do have an arduino staring at me and needs a job.

   What's your feel for this idea?

 

thay

Chris posted this 04 December 2019

Hi Thaelin,

Good to see your'e still with us!

 

Have you considered the use of optical isolation in this unit?

 

Yes, however last time I looked, OptoIsolators were limited to 80 - 100Khz. MagnetoIsolators are 50Mbits/s.

I think any and all projects where one can learn something is important!

I would be keen to see your progress on this, see what the pros and cons are.

   Chris

Chris posted this 06 December 2019

My Friends,

After some work, I think we may be able to change R5 to a 680R resistor:

 

Something to keep in mind.

Also, for those hat have been sent Free PCB's, you will need to run a 1mm drill bit through the holes for the 5 Volt Regulator.

 

 

This is the best version of the Reliable and Flexible Switching System to date!

Enjoy my friends!

   Chris

Chris posted this 15 December 2019

My Friends,

I have been asked whats the purpose of some of the Caps. Its easier to show you:

 

This guy does excellent videos!

   Chris

thaelin posted this 18 December 2019

  Great news if not already known. DigiKey has 500 IL610-1E in stock right now. I am hoping that this piece will work the same. It shows as  General Purpose Digital Isolator 2500Vrms 1 Channel 100Mbps 15kV/µs CMTI 8-TSSOP, 8-MSOP (0.118", 3.00mm Width).  They are surface mount but hey, can get them now. If you buy 10, it will be about $40 plus shp.

  So Chris, it looks as if your  pulser will be a better choice than the one I want to build. It will only do 300K and that is limited on some areas. I do have an Arduino and a Pi3 to drive it.  Is the last posted schematic the current one. Will get an order out soon and go for it.

On that core, last price I saw was $384, is that right? Hope there is a better place for it.

 

thay

 

Chris posted this 18 December 2019

Hey Thaelin,

I have Power trouble before I have bandwidth trouble. I have had my old unity up to 1.8MHz, but then, if one leaves it running too long the DC Converters pop.

It is a good unit! A Good Circuit!

   Chris

Chris posted this 31 December 2019

My Friends,

Any updates / Progress on the PCB's I sent out to people?

I would love to hear on the progress and what experiments you are using the PCB's for!

Best wishes,

   Chris

Chris posted this 31 December 2019

Hey CD,

Yes, hopefully soon! A few others have already received.

   Chris

Jagau posted this 31 December 2019

Yes I received the board, there are several parts i am waiting,
aleady have several pieces installed

 
best wishes, the holiday times is slower for the receipt of parts.


Jagau

Jagau posted this 01 January 2020

Hello my friends.

The 4 channels PWM board is progressing very well, it needs to order the IL610 isolator, I found it at an external distributor (finally).

I can't wait to see how he behaves.

In the meantime, a big thank you Chris for making me discover this forum which is really for my expectations and different from what I knew.


best wishes


jagau

Captainloz posted this 02 January 2020

Hey Chris, 

Happy New year!!  

I'm on vacation so I'm getting some time to work on this stuff.  I've been working on the flexible power supply board you sent me.  I just have a question on the 47uf inductor.  There are so many different types, Air core / ferrite / iron / etc, etc. Do you have a part number for what you're using? 

Thanks,

Loz

Chris posted this 02 January 2020

Hey CaptainLoz,

The Inductor is to try to stop RF coming back into the RK-0515S DC Converter. So we need a suitable RF Inductor.

To be honest any axial inductor 47uh, will do the job.

You want a 1 watt or so.

   Chris

Captainloz posted this 02 January 2020

Go it, thanks Chris!

Loz

Chris posted this 02 January 2020

Hey Guys and Gals,

Just a reminder, it might be wise, to change R5 to a 680 ohm Resistor.

The PCB works fine, but just gets a bit warm on the 5V Regulators. I think a 680R Resistor will reduce the heat and also allow for good performance still.

Its easy to change anyway!

I have made some changes to the next version already, the board is a bit smaller, more compact, and also traces are top and bottom for higher Current capabilities on the Main Drive Mosefts.

So, practice your un-soldering, as in some months I may have another PCB ready.

This version is by far the best PCB Version to date, very nice smooth and fast, huge bandwidth, a very: Reliable and Flexible Switching System!

Have fun guys!

   Chris

Captainloz posted this 02 January 2020

I'm making progress!  I just didn't have enough parts, but they are on the way!

Flexible Power Supply PCB

Cheers,

Loz

Chris posted this 03 January 2020

Hey Loz,

That is awesome! Some good ideas there for securing the Fets and Input Wiring!

Very Nice!

   Chris

Captainloz posted this 03 January 2020

Thanks Chris, Yes I keep blowing stuff up!  So these make things a lot quicker to replace.

Here is the Ebay links for people that are interested in the Mosfet and Regulator sockets.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-10Set-2EDG-3-Pin-3P-Plug-in-Screw-Terminal-Block-Connector-5-08mm-Pitch/371874798270?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10Pcs-2-54mm-0-1-Universal-3-Pin-3-Poles-PCB-Screw-Terminal-Block-Connector/293045917624?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The only issue with these is you increase the distance between the components, so it's possible to get some ringing, I guess... 

These are for the inputs-

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10Pcs-2-54mm-0-1-Universal-2-Pin-2-Poles-PCB-Screw-Terminal-Block-Connector/293251391717?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Loz

 

Captainloz posted this 05 January 2020

Got it done! Not as clean as your's Chris, but it turned out okay.  I need to put some insulators between the Mosfets and heat sinks but if I'm carful I can use it "as is".   All that's left to do now is test it. Hopefully very soon!

 

Jagau posted this 05 January 2020

Hello friends, just arriving from a 4 days trip, I have to update myself.

Nice job Capt loz

Ok for resistance R5 Chris. Thanks


Jagau

Captainloz posted this 06 January 2020

Hi Chris,

I just tested the board and all is good. I just have a question on the input voltage for the board. If I go over 5 volts it seems to draw a lot of current.  Is it okay to keep the input voltage at 5 volts?  

Cheers,

Loz

 

Chris posted this 06 January 2020

Hey Loz,

Awesome! Looks really nice!

Yes, R5, the resistor I mentioned above, did you change it to a 680R Resistor? I think that might be an option for improvement?

I am also finding the same thing, heating of the Regulators, you may remember the post with this circuit:

 

I think this is the first place to look, I went off the original schematic, using the values that was supplied.

I hope this helps some!

   Chris

Captainloz posted this 06 January 2020

Hi Chris,

Yes I installed the 680R resistors.  What input voltage do you use on diode D5 input CN3? 

I've been playing around with it and it's working great, I'm only inputting 5vdc on input CN3 / diode D5, nothing is getting hot. 

Cheers,

Loz

Chris posted this 06 January 2020

Hey Loz,

Currently I am using a 12V DC Transformer.

 

Maybe check for a bad Zener Diode? Perhaps one of them is bad? The 5V ones by the IL610 IC? Not sure what else might be the problem. I have also had heating problems, and I think we can improve this. Maybe try a 1K resistor instead of a 680R?

I will also do some more investigating.

   Chris

Captainloz posted this 09 January 2020

Hey Chris,

I think everything is working correctly.  If I use 12 V on input CN3 I have .4amp draw or 4.8 watts. That's seems high but @ 7volts its .4 amp or 2.8 watts. I think it's normal. Your power supply can handle 1amp at 12V so it's not problem for it.  Have you looked at the power consumption when connected to your new Rigol power supply?  

Cheers,

Loz

Chris posted this 09 January 2020

Hey Loz,

I did a small test, the Rigol DP832 Power Supply output on the display is not all that accurate. I have measured 10.2% Error on the Rigol DP832 Power Supply in one test using the Rigol DS1104 Scope. That was measuring DC as well!

 

 

So all in all, a bit disappointed in the Rigol equipment... Especially for the Cost, its not cheap, and its poor quality!

My Cheaper older Bench Test Equipment is better than the Rigol equipment. Much more accurate!

Best Wishes

   Chris

Attached Files

Chris posted this 09 January 2020

My Friends,

I have learnt something. Because this power supply is Constant Current Constant Voltage, we need to take into account my measurements were true Voltage and Current, which may not reflect the same values.

Constant Current Sources:

 

Rigol DP832 Power Supply:

 

I need to calibrate my DP832 Power Supply - The pdf is attached. Thank Jagau for the heads up!

Help:

 

Still I am not happy with the Rigol DS1104 Scope, it  is so slow! Maybe a firmware upgrade may help?

Sorry, a little off topic here, although it is hardware, just not about the: Reliable and Flexible Switching System

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Attached Files

Captainloz posted this 10 January 2020

Hi Chris,

Thanks for posting the videos on the power supply. I've been through the current setting issues already.  

I have the Rigol DS1074 scope and don't have any issue like the long lag you're getting. I'm not sure what it is. Did you check the sample rate? My sample rate is set on 500Msa/s and scope works fast.  It's possible you have an issue with that scope, there's no way it should be that slow. I've been really happy with the DS1074z

Loz

 

Chris posted this 10 January 2020

Hey Loz,

I have been through lots of things. I should get Rigol on the phone! It is painful!

   Chris

Chris posted this 10 January 2020

My Friends,

After some messing around, and 20 minutes of Run Time for the Calibration, I am getting much better results:

 

NOTE: Don't calibrate your equipment when they are cold! It makes for terrible results! You need to run your machines for at least 20 minutes before Calibrating your machines!

An Average of 5.15 Watts on Scope and on PSU, but notice the Voltage and Current are a little off even though we get the same Output power.

  1. Voltage: 5.00 compared to 5.10
  2. Current: 1.03 compared to 1.02

 

Isn't this just crazy!

I hope this helps others!

   Chris

Atti posted this 10 January 2020

The Rigol DS 1052 gives you half an hour warm-up time before self-calibration.
So even here, there is a margin of error.

Chris posted this 10 January 2020

Hey Atti,

We are careful, we take care, error is small and we have shown a thorough approach. Not that we need it, when we reach a  level of understanding, the Output is way over the average margin of Error!

After all, if error is ±10%, but we see an Energy Gain of 200% then 10% is very small in the scheme of things!

Truly, worrying about this when the Gain Margin is so large, is a mute argument. So no need to worry, we are doing the utmost to show Accuracy, and also How to Calibrate, and check ones equipment.

Don't focus on the numbers yet, focus on the Effects and the Numbers will follow! Increase the Effects then you will see the Numbers increase accordingly!

Its not hard, ask others here replicating the Effects!

   Chris

Jagau posted this 11 January 2020

Hi chris


I just received a good part of the parts for the quadratron.
I'm still missing some back order parts but the project is progressing well.

If you don't mind I will make some modifications to adapt it to my needs


Jagau

Chris posted this 20 January 2020

Hey CD,

Yes Diodes don't need to be Ultra Fast, but on the Switching side, it will be of benefit if you can.

The faster the Diodes conduct, the faster the Diode can dump Gate Current to Ground. For Faster On and Off Times.

Input Diodes are protection diodes, stopping Current in the Reverse Direction. All Diodes are in the right direction, remembering the MCP1403 dumps gate Current to Ground Internally:

The Low Side PNP Mosfet on the Output Pin, when the signal is off, Grounds the Output Pin.

I hope this helps!

   Chris

Jagau posted this 21 January 2020

Hi chris


This card is really super isolated from the source.
I started to study the circuit in more detail, a DC-DC converter, a passive isolator, a mosfet driver.
Wow super isolated from the source, I'm finishing to assemble it, can't wait to try this.

Jagau

Chris posted this 21 January 2020

Hey Jagau,

It is, my friend, AR on the original Circuit, gave me the circuit, I made a few small changed, but it is the best I have ever seen when it comes to Isolation and Speed and Bandwidth.

Some of my earlier Circuits had some small mistakes / Imperfections, but this last version is by far the best I have built!

I have already started a new version, it has a few improvements, Double sided on some High Current Traces, shorter Traces where possible, moved the Decoupling caps closer to the IC's, better size, a little smaller, and little better cutout, around the outside:

 

I really enjoy prototyping stuff like this, not sure if much more improvements can be made here on in.

   Chris

Jagau posted this 21 January 2020

Hey Chris

Sounds interesting but just out of curiosity is it the same initial circuit component to the one I made?

Jagau

Chris posted this 21 January 2020

Hey Jagau,

Yes same basic circuit.

   Chris

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Chris posted this 22 January 2020

Hey CD,

You will be fine to use something close.

C3 16pf is a Filter Cap, to try to filter out anything that is not desirable. At least this is my understanding. Jagau can likely explain better the use here for this cap.

The value is not all that important, just use something that is close.

I cant wait to see all your builds!

   Chris

Jagau posted this 30 January 2020

I apologize I had not seen your question, I hope it is not too late.
As said the manufacturer and I quote:


  For high-speed logic signals (tr, tf <10 ns), a 16 pF capacitor is recommended. But the capacitor value is generally not critical; if in doubt, choose a higher value.


I personally use a 20 nf

Sorry for the delay


Jagau

Chris posted this 17 February 2020

My Friends,

I see more and more, in need for a Reliable and Flexible Switching System.

We are now up to version 3.0 of the Reliable and Flexible Switching System, version 2.0 seen here:

I would really like to see more results / experiments of those that have received their free PCB's!

It would be great to see more use of the PCB's! They are very useful Circuits!

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Jagau posted this 17 February 2020

Mine is completed and it is going very well I am satisfied.
I'll give you a demo soon to show it to you.
I am, as you know, completely absorbed by another project that exceeds all my expectations.
Thanks for the board
Jagau

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Chris posted this 17 February 2020

Hey Jagau, CD, Awesome! I am happy to hear!

@CD, for proper Isolation, the Regulators and Mosfets should not use the same Heat Sinks. The Collector Tab, or the Drain Tab will effectively parallel the Circuits to Ground. A PCB Mount TO 220 Aluminum Heat Sink Heatsink can range from $0.70 to $3.00 or more. I use the cheap ones, they seem to work just as good:

 

Just a heads up my friend. I hope this helps some. There is some heating, a 12 volt to 5 volt dissipation will create some heat. Bigger Heat Sinks are better, or drop your input Voltage.

Best Wishes and Thank You for sharing your progress, I very much appreciate!

   Chris

Jagau posted this 25 February 2020

Hi chris


I started to experiment with the card I received. As you can see on the scope shot, the insulation is excellent, even better than I thought. No distortion on the input signall on channel 1,  compared to the output signal channel 2, excellent.


Regulation with a minimum input voltage of 7.5 volts, this is what the 7805 needs to regulate well, is perfect,  which gives me a very precise 5 volts even with the lamp on

 


thank you again many other projects in mind with this card.


Jagau

Chris posted this 25 February 2020

Hey Jagau,

Thats excellent! I am very pleased to hear youre so happy with the PCB.

It is one of the best Circuits I have ever used! By far! It is very precise and very reliable. Of course the components installed, Mosfet and so on does make a difference also, but the general circuit is first class!

I am so pleased to hear! Thank You for letting me know!

Best wishes,

Chris

Andrew posted this 05 March 2020

For those of us without the necessaries (ability, time, space) to build such a thing of wonder, would an off-the-shelf variable frequency drive/inverter be suitable for pulsing the primary coil? Or is there something else you'd recommend? I'd like to build my own when the time is right, but I'm itching to start experimenting asap...

Vidura posted this 05 March 2020

Hey Andrew and welcome. There are options to buy PWM units of the shelf, most important is frequency and duty cycle adjustment. I personally prefer the analogue version, and if the on time can be adjusted independent from the frequency is helpful in many experiments. For Switch and driver you can make yourself a simple setup, for low side switching. Feel free to copy designs from the thread "developing a modular switching tool for research", Or contact me if you need assistance. Vidura.

Chris posted this 19 April 2020

My Friends,

It is early days, not much testing has been done, but V3.0 of the 4 Channel Isolated Mosfet Driver Board is on E Bay.

 

 

Note: This is a PCB Only.

 

The MCP1403, is no longer stocked at element14, a chip with the same Pin Out and characteristics will need to be sourced, or another supplier will need to be found. I managed to find some at Mouser Electronics. The opposite is true for the IL610. The RK-0515S is easy to find still. Be careful of the layout, don't purchase until you have checked the sizes. I am sorry, I don't have enough to share.

 

Single Channel list, x4 to get 4 Channel:

 

Version 2.0 I have tested thoroughly, version 3.0 has not been tested so much. These PCB's once assembled and working properly, are worth their weight in Gold! See the above testimony's!

Anyone not having an Electronics background, I do not recommend purchasing, these are fairly involved to put together!

For beginners, I would recommend purchasing Vidura's Switching Module, Vidura's units are ideal for those that do not have a great Electronics Background. Please contact Vidura for more help.

   Chris

baerndorfer posted this 26 April 2020

a short question here...

if i control the switching of a circuit with a microcontroller - Arduino for example - i have to deal with the 16MHz frequency.

actually i can do a pulse with my circuit which is 126ns long (PulseWidth). the controller has to switch ON and OFF - therefore he will need 2 clock cycles. Because i have a 16MHz chip i can calculate the time for one cycle which is 64ns.

if my thinking is correct (is it?) i cannot go under this time value right?

regards!

 

Chris posted this 14 June 2020

Hey CD,

My Friend, I am sorry I do not know and there are no apparent ID Codes on them. I scavenged them from old Circuit boards.

Best wishes, stay safe and well,

   Chris

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Ourbobby posted this 02 August 2020

Hi Chris,

From above reply,

"It is early days, not much testing has been done, but V3.0 of the 4 Channel Isolated Mosfet Driver Board is on E Bay."

Not listed anymore, who might have them?

 

Regards

ourbobby

Chris posted this 02 August 2020

Hi Ourbobby,

Sorry, I don't sell them anymore. The cost per unit was to high and I just could not make it affordable and worth while.

Best wishes, stay safe and well,

   Chris

sr73 posted this 21 October 2020

hi Chris,

 

any chance you will make those pcbs again, some of us I can pay you the cost + your profit.

 

thanks,

Sam.

Chris posted this 21 October 2020

Hi Sam,

I will look into it and see what I can do the PCB's for. I have had a few inquiry's lately.

As much as anything else, Postage is what makes this unaffordable, it is super expensive to post anywhere now from Australia! I think Australia post have made post unaffordable.

Best wishes, stay safe and well,

   Chris

sr73 posted this 21 October 2020

Hi Chris,

I hope you're on the mend, and I hope those injuries you mentioned are not too serious.

Please let us know how mush is the cost of shipping, and i'm sure some of us will take that into account.

In the meantime, i'm trying to find a starting point here to start my experimentation, wow this site is very extensive, but thanks for putting up for us.

 

Kindest regards,

Sam.

 

 

Chris posted this 26 October 2020

My Friends,

Australia Post is not reliable enough or cheap enough for me to continue selling PCB's.

 

At your own risk, no responsibility on me:

I have decided to post the zip file of the gerber and drill files.

 

 

What you will need to know:

Dimensions: 126mm x 122mm

File: .gb0 -  Board outline layer

File: .gb1 -  Bottom copper (solder side) layer

File: .gb2 - Top copper (component side) layer

File: .gb3 - Bottom (solder side) solder mask layer

File: .gb4 - Top (component side) solder mask layer

File: .gb5 - Silk screen (component outline) layer

 

I have used JLCPCB and they are great, just upload the zip file and add the above into the instructions. They need to know what each file is for. Beware the cost, $2 PCB is not what you get because of the size and shipping.

This is given freely, but I take no responsibility from here what you or others do with it. Design V.3.0 is now Public Domain.

Best wishes, stay safe and well,

   Chris

Attached Files

Jagau posted this 26 October 2020

Hello Chris

You have a lot of compassion and a big heart my friend.

I think it will help a lot of people who haven't had the chance to have it, it is a real gift.


Thank you


Jagau

Chris posted this 26 October 2020

Hey Jagau,

Thank You My Friend!

We have nothing, if we don't have each other. I want the Human Race to succeed with all my heart!

Best wishes, stay safe and well,

   Chris

 

Chris posted this 04 November 2020

My Friends,

NOTE: I do not consider Itsu a Troll or a Trouble maker! He posts with Trolls and Trouble Makers. Itsu is a hard worker and does excellent work. I do not consider Verpies a Troll or a Trouble Maker either.

Some news:

Ref: Captainloz Video 9 (showing COP = 2) replication

 

They will be doing one of two things here:

  1. Genuinely building the RFSS and testing it, and attempting to use if for their experiments. To benefit from.
  2. Building it to try their very hardest to find a fault that they can use to explain where all our Success comes from. Let them Try! We know better!

 

Note To Itsu: If you Succeed, I would not go public on the Forum you currently post! You will see what you think of as your friends, turn against you, attack you and make you feel less than 1 inch tall! They will Troll you like you have perhaps not seen before! So, a friendly Warning, be very careful what you say and where you say it if you don't want Trouble from you so called Friends!

It is very hard to trust the Haters, the ones we have had so much problems from in the past!

Best wishes,

   Chris

 

P.S: The IL610 is not an Optocoupler, it is Giant Magnetoresistive (GMR) technology, or you could say a magnetocoupler. Not an Optocoupler! The difference is about 50MHz!

Forushani posted this 05 November 2020

Hi Guys

 

thanks for the board file Chris.

Since I am not good at soldering, I am going to see if I can order a finished board.

 

Is there a BOM file?

I don't know enough to make one as I don't know like voltages for capacitors, etc?

 

thanks 

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Chris posted this 07 November 2020

Hi Forushani,

No, no BOM files, just what's in the zip file.

Best Wishes

   Chris  

Pierre Sinclaire posted this 08 November 2020

Thank you Chris for the file. 

Forushani posted this 09 November 2020

I ordered some boards.

I will have some boards and am willing to give them away. You just pay shipping .

I will give 1 board to anyone that can put together a good BOM file and pay the shipping in the US.

The other 4 , I will leave to Mr Chris to decide who should get them.

Any suggestions? Anyone else inerested?

Chris posted this 09 November 2020

Hey Forushani,

That is a very generous gift to others!

Please organise via PM. It is best if you decide who gets the boards.

I wish I saw this sort of interest back when i was doing this, many now see the worth of such a simple thing! Its great to see! One of the most important tools in the belt of a Serious Researcher! A Flexible and Reliable Switching System!

Best wishes,

   Chris

 

P.S: Re the BOM file you asked for or Bill of Materials, is on this thread in a few places, one is Here.

 

 

Forushani posted this 11 November 2020

Thanks Chris,

.You have done so much for the community. I am offering to assist in any way possible. I am just starting out as a beginner and can appreciate all the hard work others have done that can be a good foundation for the rest of us.

Thanks again and God bless you

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Forushani posted this 12 November 2020

Sorry for all the questions

What MOSFETs do I need?

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Chris posted this 12 November 2020

Hey Forushani,

The Package Type, for the PCB, is a TO247 or similar:

 

There are many very good Mosfets on the market. We have some discussion Here and Here.

There is some information on this thread also.

A Low RDSON is very desirable! 0.05 or less would be nice, Matching Voltage Current Rating is also important.

I hope this helps!

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Forushani posted this 19 November 2020

Thanks Chris

Having a hard time sourcing the IL610.

Also, can I get some specific diodes to use for the fast diodes?

Any particular one you guys used.

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Chris posted this 19 November 2020

Hi Forushani,

The IL610 can be found here. I have given all this above btw.

Just find the best diodes you can, mine: IN5408, IN4004, but use UF Diodes if you can, I have in some of my builds. Also18V Zener on the negative Rail:

 

Have you got the Zener Diodes in Place? They are for Mosfet Protection.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Chris posted this 21 November 2020

Hey Forushani,

Very Nice! Thank You for Sharing!

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Forushani posted this 21 November 2020

Dear Chris,

Do you think those Diodes D1, D2, D3, D4 by

"www.aboveunity.com"

 

should be same or different markings?

What about my MOSFET selection? Any good?

 

Thank you sir

Chris posted this 21 November 2020

Hello Forushani,

All the same, they are just Power Protection Diodes. To ensure the Power Supply is protected.

Best wishes,

   Chris

Chris posted this 24 November 2020

Hey Forushani,

You some how inverted your Images Horizontally, it looked like your Diodes and a few other components were in wrong, but taking a closer look, I see you invert your Images Horizontally.

NOTE To Other Readers: Beware, this Inversion!

 

Other than the Images being inverted, its looking good!

Good Luck!

   Chris

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Forushani posted this 24 November 2020

the only difference as far as I can tell, comparing your board and mine is

 

looking at my board, I have resistors, capacitors, then chips 

on yours you have caps, resistors, Chips

but I followed the board layout.

I figured this is version 3.0 but the other one might be an older version.

 

If this is not right, please advise.

thanks

 

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Forushani posted this 24 November 2020

Couple of more questions

 

The board has a single power input and 4 Signals, one for each channel. Correct?

 

Also, what was the minimum and maximum voltage and amperage please?

 

Can one use the board for negative voltages down the road?

 

Thannks guys

 

 

Chris posted this 24 November 2020

Hey Forushani,

Its looking good! Follow the Circuit above and check the Parts are 100% right.

Check your 5v zeners, 18v zeners and polarity on the Input.

Looking good well done!

Good Luck!

   Chris

 

P.S: Yes 4 Chanel if you keep Mosfets Isolated. One power Input, 7-12V. Make sure all polarity's are right! Check Diodes on the Board etc...Use a 10 Amp Fuse. Board can handle more, but no point going crazy silly with it! Use it well within Mosfet Ratings!

Chris posted this 25 November 2020

Hey Forushani,

Did you solve the problem? From the first post you said its not working, and the second post I see a Square wave, did you figure out what the problem was? Also you are using Current on the PSU.

From what I can see, its working, you have scope on the Output, you have waveform, it appears to be working to me? Yes?

Anyone in this situation should always probe the Mosfet Gate, see if there is Signal, and what Amplitude the Signal is!

If there is Signal here, it should be working! If not: Check all components, make sure you have everything Correct! Diode Polarity's, Integrated Chip Polarity's, everything!

Work back to where you DO have a signal and Id the problem part. Place something incorrect, it will likely blow something, gotta get everything 100% Correct.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

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Chris posted this 25 November 2020

Hey Forushani,

Excellent! Good Work!

I am very pleased you now have it working! There is a lot of things you can do with this very good PCB! We have many threads here that you can learn about Switching, and Wiring Configurations.

Start here: On and Off, Conduction in a Mosfet, and work on the: Measurements also if you wish. Lots of excellent information in there.

I like the Quote: Little Steps for Little Feet - Sir Richard Feynman

No Pressure, no stress.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

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Forushani posted this 10 December 2020

Hello everyone,

I told everybody that I was a beginner and did not know a thing about electronics and I still don't.

So, I ordered some boards from China and a few things from Mouser to build the board.

My first board was really hard for me as I had not soldered anything before. Took me awhile.

When I started testing. I thought the board did not work. I checked and double and triple checked everything and my light bulb was not lighting.

So, I said to myself this board is ducked up. Let's bud another from scratch. Off I went buying the 2nd board. That did not work. How petty. Is it the board or parts or my skills or there lack of.

So, guess what. Let's build one from scratch Third board and I am running out of chips and capacitors and diodes and more orders.

Tonight, with Chris's and Captains (Great Man), I realized the problem.

This is not to provide the power but rather the switch. Now, I understand. I was trying to light the bulb with the board.

My bad guys. Beginner mistakes are expensive but somehow I thought, I was going to have some beginner luck.

I hope you guys are not laughing too hard . I will not quit at small hurdles.

Thank you for all the help and the fun I had making these boards. .now, off to making bigger (costlier) mistakes. By the way, can somebody tell me so.e creative thing to do with 3 QUADRATRONS . Does this quality as a DOZENTRON maybe?

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Forushani posted this 10 December 2020

Chris posted this 10 December 2020

My Friends,

I want to post this, some Private Message Help, here, in the hopes it helps others:

 

If you have any problems

Follow 100% the Circuit:

 

Yes, the board should always work! The only time it wont work is if you have:

  1. Faulty Part.
  2. Have something wrong, either Diode back to front, incorrect Mosfet, incorrect part somewhere.

 

I have never seen a bad PCB, but that's also a remote possibility. Check the PCB's against each other. Most of us here, have the same PCB, all here have had no trouble with it, so best advice I can give is check all parts, make sure all parts are right, check all are working, no bad parts, check your Mosfet is within the Ratings, 10 to 20Volts Max on the Input, make sure your Mosfet's are NPN, make sure they are NOT PNP. We don't use PNP, they are not very forgiving in my opinion. Got to be NPN.

Follow 100% the Circuit, and select a Mosfet within rating, and it will work.

Probe with your scope, to find where it is working to, what part is working. Then narrow down to the part that is not working. I would recommend starting at the Mosfet Gate.

Make sure you use Zener Diodes, 2x, 5V and 18V, do not use Signal Diodes! These are D5 and D2.

The rest is up to you to probe the circuit and find the problem.

NOTE: If you have done something incorrect, there is a good possibility, other parts may have been damaged. So you may have more than one faulty part. Also, in some instances, too much heat from the Iron can damage parts, so this is something to be aware of.

The PCB is a High Tech, Isolated, Flexible, Switch, so all normal Circuit Rules apply beyond this point. This Switch is Polarity Sensitive! Only Switching in one Direction!

 

The two above Circuits are Identical in Principle! Q1 represents a single Channel of your PCB. Q1, we see, Polarity is Important, one way, its always on, because of the diode, the other way, its off, unless Q1 is turned on.

The big Mosfet here:

 

This is One Channel, a Complicated Isolated, Reliable, Flexible Switch, every single part must be Correct and placed properly also.

Beware of:

  • Too much Iron Heat, some parts may be sensitive to over heating!
  • Not enough Heat, Solder must flow and make good contact with the part, Soldering it to the PCB.

 

These PCB's are the absolute best thing you will ever invest in! They are worth their weight in Gold! Be thorough and meticulous, get these PCB's 100% and they will do almost anything you want them to do!

Don't forget, we have projects for Input PWM also:

 

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Forushani posted this 14 January 2021

Happy new year everyone. I am still here and trying to learn and proceed.

 

One suggestion, Chris.

 

Change the markings by PWM output from "+" and "-" to "In" and "Out"

 

I know as a beginner, that took me a while to figure out.

 

Thanks and god bless 

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Chris posted this 14 January 2021

Thanks Forushani,

There is only one Positive side and one Negative side in the Circuit no matter what way the Load is switched.

 You can see here, TP1 is always Positive:

 

Low Side Switching:

 

High Side Switching:

 

So there is always a Positive and a Negative. XMM2 shows the Polarity difference, and this means TP1 is always Positive.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

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Forushani posted this 14 January 2021

Thanks Chris. What I meant was just label. You are the true MASTER

 

fer123 posted this 14 January 2021

Hello Forushani, I love this forum, Chris is the best, plus all the others working here, can you make a small video or something how to connect to a signal generator and power supply? I'am sort of beginning in electrónics I have try to used a audio amplifier, but I will like to built this switching module only I have a lot a faith in Chris an so happy he is from people side, today the evil(MONEY) change everybody. Thanks a lot.

Forushani posted this 15 January 2021

Hi


I would be glad to shoot a video for you. I built 3 boards originally, pictures above thinking my boards were not working because I did not understand how the boards were suppose to work.

 

Last couple of days, I decided to build yet a 4th one because I think I am better at soldering now that I have some experience and I can make it look better than before. I also had some problems while testing the boards on different coils. I think I either put too much power through them or my guess (back emf) got to my MOSFETs or something. 

 

 

The board is almost finished but it is almost 5AM and my 70 years old eyes are quitting

 

I am posting a picture and hopefully tomorrow I CAN DO THE VIDEO. 

It really is simple. You feed power through there Front-Right corner and the other 4 front connections are signal from the SG. One for each channel. Right now, I am using one channel.

On the back you feed the negative side of your power supply to the connector and from the other side you connect like Chris showed above.

On this last board, I am using a BNC connector. Hopefully it would work. I like that better because it makes it easier and cleaner to connect to my SG.

 

Where are you located?

Have you built your board yet?

I have some extra PCB boards(empty) because I ordered 10 from China and I don't think I need more than these 4 I built. Already got a bunch of money into these boards. If you have not built your board or someone else needs a board, I can ship it (From USA) at no charge for the board with you paying just the shipping.

 

Good luck. I hope I gave you the correct info as I am a novice myself.

 

fer123 posted this 15 January 2021

Hello Forushani, I like your board, I will pm you for your generous offer It is well appreciate true cooperation spirit, take your time for the video it is not easy for novice like us to advance fast, but like Chris mention we have to start somewhere. I was trying  Mr preva test until I will have success and after that I will continuo to the next step. See you soon.

Forushani posted this 16 January 2021

Hi

 

I made 2 videos for you. One with just a light bulb and one with a coil.

I don't know hot to put them here, so I put them on YouTube. They are not professional but should show you, how I am doing it.

I don't want to take over this thread, do maybe you can either post to my thread or create your own thread.

Thanks and good luck.

my YouTube should be "forushani"

 

Also, I made a few measurement blocks, so I can measure my input and output voltage/current

Chris has posted the PCB files for that and this Quad. Thanks again Chris

 

 

Chris posted this 16 January 2021

Hi Forushani

Please see: Help with using the Forum.

Just paste the youtube link on the new line.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

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electrondiger posted this 13 October 2021

Hy guys,

whitch mosfet did you use in thise build.

 

Thank

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Chris posted this 13 October 2021

Hi Electrondiger

Use any Mosfet you like, as long as it is within the Ratings of the Driver: MCP1403 4.5A @ 18V

NOTE: We are using the RK0515 DC Converter ±15V @ ±33mA, so adjust your selection accordingly. More Output Current is possibly for shorter periods if required.

V3.0 is Current, the latest version as of this post.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

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electrondiger posted this 07 October 2022

Hy to all members

I buid quadratron, but only 1 chanel, becose i had problem  obtaining some parts.

When i connected it to the oscilloscope, 12VDC 1A power supply and signal generator i had some problems. Signal generator was set to square vawe . On oscilloscope  vawe resembeled mix of square and sinus with 50 Hz. I try to change the frequency on the signal generator but frequency didnt change on the oscilloscope. Then i measured leads to the pcb with multimeter. Input was 12 v from mains.

I woud apricieted if somone can find error in bord, becose face it. I am not working in electricity sector unfortunable. I cheked parts if some is dameged and i checked soldering, to me it is ok. And yeah i know i should cut transistor leads under the board after the soldering, this i think isnt the problem.

If i may ask. When power mosfet cwitch is there any noise. I didnt hear nothing so this is that. Em,.. thank you for your opinions and time. Do enybody have pcb bord from qadratron perhaps, yust asking.

The bord was done from scratch in program by me. Company in china before production of boards for Quadratron found erors in zip file and they cancel the production of the boards. So i was left hanging. I learned program and how to desigh the board and how to do UV exsposure with etching procedures, soldering,.. and so on. It is my first project. Second project was mesurenment blocks.

Pictures...

 

Thank you much.

Chris posted this 07 October 2022

Hello Electrondiger,

Very Nice Build! Well Done and Thanks for sharing!

Diode D6 appears to be back to front. C5 V out needs to be checked at 5V Positive.

On initial observation, that's all I can see, but please try this first and let us know how you go.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

electrondiger posted this 07 October 2022

I repered D6 And C5 is +5.0V

Stil no good.

 

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Chris posted this 08 October 2022

Hello Electrondiger,

You need to Probe for the correct Voltage at VCC on the IC's and check how far you're getting Signal through the Circuit.

You have 15 volts output on the RK-0515?

Your input Signal, its DC Square Wave at 5 Volts?

Please provide more information, we need to know where its working to! Where signal works and then doesn't work.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

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electrondiger posted this 08 October 2022

Hy

Input 12V DC1A power suply conected to pcb:       

D1 0.0V                  C1 0.0V                                 

D2 0.0V                  C2 5.49V

D3 0.0V                  C3 15.56V

D4 1.38V                C4 11.74V

D5 -5.45V ?            C5 5.0V

D6 0.3V                  C6 15.59V

After i conect signal generator C1 is 4.7. Signal generator is set from 0 to 6Mhz and 12 v out, and it is giving 5.45 on the conection block to the pcb board.

If you ask me this signal generator is wierd. I mesured diodes and capacitors with multimeter negative side to negative side of diode or capacitor and positive side to positive site of diode or capacitor.

D5 is negative this is strange and 20 v out form signal generator puts only 5.45 from the leads this is strange too. Signal generator JDS6600. Run it on CH1 and CH2, duty cycle 50%.

RK-0515  puts 15.56 from pin 5 and 7. Pin 7 is negative 5 is positive.

7805 is warm after 5 minutes to the touch of the hand.

Input wawe form is square pulse. Square is wawe witch goes from + to- in this generator so i used pulse witch is 0 to + in sqare form.

Thanks

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Chris posted this 08 October 2022

Hello Electrondiger,

Strip the PCB down, remove IC's, Diodes and Fets. Add one part at a time, checking for Functionality, making sure you have Vcc and Signal through the PCB as you add components back.

See IC Datasheets for Pin Outs.

Failing troubleshooting, you can download the PCB files on this thread and get a PCB made and delivered.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

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ISLab posted this 13 January 2023

Hi @Chris, does this work with High Side operation also? Or does it need to be modified with bootstrap circuit for that?

 

Also, you gave links for PWM circuits here:

Don't forget, we have projects for Input PWM also:

Several of these threads are missing.

In retrospect what would you recommend as PWM for long-term work?

Chris posted this 13 January 2023

Hello ISLab,

Your questions:

Hi @Chris, does this work with High Side operation also? Or does it need to be modified with bootstrap circuit for that?

 

Yes, no, not sure how familiar with Electronics you are, but any Isolated driver will work Low side and also High Side. This circuit is fully isolated, as you can see by studding the Circuit, and High Speed!

 

Also, you gave links for PWM circuits here:

Don't forget, we have projects for Input PWM also:

Several of these threads are missing.

 

Yeah, some disgruntled Ex-Members have gone through and deleted their threads. It does not matter, because they are not needed and really are 99.9% irrelevant because this thread overrides the ones that have been deleted. This was done before the Delete button had the timeout implemented.

In retrospect what would you recommend as PWM for long-term work?

 

Of course, any serious Researcher and Experimenter needs a Toolkit that is relevant for the work that they are doing, so its a decision that only you can make, not one for anyone else to make!

Best Wishes,

   Chris

ISLab posted this 23 January 2023

If you have any problems

Follow 100% the Circuit:

Hi Chris,

I've just received my boards and am soldering. In the parts list posted earlier there a serious differences in value from this circuit: D5 is 1N4734 in the circuit and 1N4733 in the parts list. Only 1N4733 is 5V1; the other is 5V6 (according to https://www.futurlec.com/Diodes/1N4733.shtml).

Which one to use?

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Chris posted this 23 January 2023

Hi ISLab,

5V1, don't over voltage the IC! 

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Plasmonic posted this 07 February 2023

Hey Chris,

PCBs are on the way, just gotta get all the components ordered.  Hopefully whatever changed on the JLCPCB end to let me order is correct but either way I think it can be worked through.

👍

Matt

Chris posted this 07 February 2023

Hey Guys,

I want to make this perfectly clear to the Community, the same Community that is trying to discredit this Circuit, the small few, that this Circuit was designed by Aero Space Engineers, with a combined experience of more than 30 Years.

Its been tested by many! Including Myself for many years!

 

The only problems that anyone may have, is installing inferior parts or components that are not correct.

This is truly the best Circuit any Serious Researcher can have in their Toolkit!

Best Wishes,

   Chris

ISLab posted this 08 February 2023

Hi Chris, what is the MOSFET that you use with this?

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Chris posted this 09 February 2023

Hi ISLab,

Currently: 5N3003, which is obsolete.

Many use the Cree Wolfspeed Mosfets, very good they are! You want  very low RDSON, as low as possible.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

ISLab posted this 09 February 2023

Thank you Chris! This is a very valuable gift from you to the entire Over-Unity researchers community -- one more among so many others!

I wish someone on this forum had told me right at the beginning to start by building this instead of making simple but limited circuits to experiment with.

 

So let me do my part here:

To all those on this forum who are serious about long-term research and experimentation, please make this device your base for switching system, even if initially this requires additional expense and time to build. You will save yourself many hours (or rather many months!) of avoidable problems and inconveniences.

You absolutely need a fully isolated system and, depending on your line of experimentation, may need anything from one to four of them.

I've made mine recently and I really wish I had started with this from the beginning! 😊

 

Tips for the new builder

I'm also sharing a few points that will be helpful for the new builder, based on my recent experience in building this.

  • Take the latest Gerber files as shared by Chris above. But these will no more work as they are on new Gerber viewers or PCB makers, since the Gerber files definitions were revised since that version of the software used to make these was released. In particular, the header code as present in these files is now obsolete. The KiCad Gerber viewer gives error message:

Invalid GERBER format command 'D' at line 2: "%FSDAX23Y23*%"

You can ignore this normally. But if you want to remove the error, then edit the first line (as above) and replace "D" by "L", so that the line becomes: "%FSLAX23Y23*%".

  • Most current PCB makers require the file names extensions to follow the new naming convention: TOP.GTL, BOTTOM.GBL, TOPMASK.GTS, BOTTOMMASK.GBS, TOPSILK.GTO, BOTTOMSILK.GBO, DRILL.DRL, where the extension must correspond to the kind of content in the file, but the file names can all be the same. So:

With these two corrections you will have no problems viewing or uploading for PCB manufacture.

When you place the components, note that the screen markings (on the version 3 boards) have two mistakes:

  • The markings of D2 and D3 are interchanged in all four channels
  • The first Diodes incoming from the PSU are marked D1, D2, D3, D4 respectively on the four channels, when they should have been the same D1 or D6 as in the parts list, or D11 as in the circuit diagram.
  • D5 is wrongly named both in the circuit diagram and in the parts list, and should actually be: 1N4733 (5V1 Zener)

As Chris said, when in doubt, follow the circuit diagram.

 

I hope these notes help you and save you some avoidable struggles.

Kritischer posted this 19 May 2023

Thank you @ISLab for clarifying the file format issue and summarizing the component naming issue. I've got boards on order and will take my time to assemble and test.

I've been wanting to post my build and issues but I know that comments will reflect what has been said time and time again to others.

I'm convinced that my troubles are for lack of proper switching isolation. I've taken several breaks from my build since 2019 because I can't seem to get it right even with all the parts I've accumulated. I don't know why it's been so difficult for me. It might be analysis paralysis with there seemingly being so many options for a circuit. It might be that I'm afraid to succeed or don't feel like I deserve to. Ether way I just want a switching circuit and I'll do anything at this point. Thank you for doing what you do.

 

Chris posted this 20 May 2023

Hey Kritischer,

We are here for you Mate! I will do the best I can to help where I can, but yes, I agree, to a degree, there must be a frame of mind gained, to be able to move into a new world!

The Power to become Self Sufficient, in so many ways, it is each and everyone of ours, and the path forward is one we can only take by Choice. 

We are here for you mate!

I posted this thread many years ago to give you all the step forward, that took me so long to achieve, because a good reliable Switching System is a very difficult task to achieve unless one has a very good EE Knowledge.

Best Wishes, and good to know you're still here with us!

   Chris

Kritischer posted this 25 May 2023

Boards and parts are in. I will be assembling starting tonight. 

Thank you tremendously you for continued encouragement.

Despite the great feedback by ISLab, I was hoping for a sanity check on the following

  • The markings of D2 and D3 are interchanged in all four channels
  • The first Diodes incoming from the PSU are marked D1, D2, D3, D4 respectively on the four channels, when they should have been the same D1 or D6 as in the parts list, or D11 as in the circuit diagram.

From what I can see in what I think is being referred to as the circuit diagram below:
D1, D3, and D11 are all the UF Recovery Diodes. Can someone please confirm?
D2, D4, and D5 are the Zener's that have have PN specs available. 

If D2 and D3 are reversed on the board itself, what is labeled as "D3" should be the 1N4746 and what is labeled as "D2" should be the UF Diode.

It's the "they should have been the same D1 or D6 as in the parts list, or D11 as in the circuit diagram" that is tripping my ambiguity sub-routine. I don't know what to make of the statement.

The only other bit (that probably isn't a cause for concern) is that on the original Quad circuit it calls for 47uF Electrolytic caps connected to the 7805 (C1,C2 of original quad image) but I see 100uF (C4,C5) being used on the image immediately above.

The original quad image also calls for 47uF Electrolytic as C4 instead of 470uF as C6. 

Regardless, I'm certainly going to follow the schematic while placing parts and will absolutely pay attention to diode direction.

Kritischer posted this 27 May 2023

I'm not able to add images to this post. I disabled ad blockers etc and use Brave Broweser.

I'll try later but I just spent a while typing this up and I need to get out of here.

I used

MUR8100E for the UF Diodes

C3M0065090D for the power mosfet

I'm showing my coils here but any specific measurements would naturally go in a dedicated post.

I'm powering the board with a 12V 1A wall brick. I have a bench pulse generator on the left of the Denon.

I do see 15.4V or so on pin 6 of the MCP1403. The PWM signal can vary to +10V max.

I triple checked the direction of all the diodes but another set of eyes wouldn't do any harm.

It got late as I started looking at signals and I'm having a hard time watching the Gate.

I followed it back to pin 5 of the MCP but I'm not seeing a clean signal.

I'm even having a hard time seeing the signal on pin 6 of the IL610.

I'm sending in a 1khz signal 10% to start. 

I connected the + output of the mosfet to the + of the PSU. The - of the PSU goes to the + of the primary coil. The output of the primary coil returns to the gnd/source. I only put 1V in.

Maybe all the isolation makes it tricky to probe, but admittedly I did just get this scope and I'm getting used to it. I can see the calibration signal no problem. I can see the PWM input from the generator no problem. Everything inside the circuit I'm having issues seeing. 

I'm going to get some sleep and get back to this when I can. Realistically it will be days. I felt good about following the diagram once I had boards in hand, and it went together nice on a hot plate to preheat for hand soldering. Even so something must be wrong. I'm going to spend some time on the mosfet datasheet. I bought those a while ago and wanted to see if they would work here. Besides that I'm out of things to try.

Hopefully after some rest and a better understanding of where the test points are I'll make some progress.

Thank you for doing what you do.

 

 

Kritischer posted this 27 May 2023

Image upload still broken. I tried the file manager, the upload image option, and copy paste. There is a problem in each case. I don't have time to try again now.

 

Attached Files

Kritischer posted this 27 May 2023

I managed to attach images to the previous post, but when I viewed one of them it appeared rotated. I don’t believe they are inverted, just not the way I'd prefer to present them. Site features here are spotty for me but that's not a judgment. It's kind of part of the charm and barrier to entry. I'm grateful that here exists. I just got frustrated I couldn't communicate thoroughly enough with inline photos.

 

I can't wait to get back to the bench, and I welcome your feedback.

Chris posted this 27 May 2023

Hey Kritischer,

Images must be under 2Mb, currently your images are around 3.2Mb. There is a Notification that does take place, but its hard to spot if one is not looking for it, its a job I need to get on to! Edit: This is now fixed.

If you shrink Images down, then you will be able to add them fine.

Nice work, good to see!

Best Wishes,

   Chris

ISLab posted this 28 May 2023

Hi Kritischer,

Sorry I've been out of touch for a while, and just saw your posts. Glad my notes were helpful.

From what I can see in what I think is being referred to as the circuit diagram below:
D1, D3, and D11 are all the UF Recovery Diodes. Can someone please confirm?
D2, D4, and D5 are the Zener's that have have PN specs available. 

Yes. But note the correction to specs of D5 which should be 1N4733 (5V1 Zener) and not as in the diagram or the specs (where it is wrongly shown as IN4734).

D1, D3, D11 are all IN5819 from the parts list. Make sure the MUR8100E specs match. But this may not be critical. Note:

IN5819 Diode was designed as a low forward voltage drop, low switching noise, and a high surge current capability. The 1N5819 was designed as a Schottky Diode offering a forward voltage drop of 600mV and a forward current of 1A. Its low forward voltage drop makes it ideal for reverse polarity protection circuits. The Schottky diode also features faster switching speeds and hence can be used in high-frequency switching circuits.

You asked:

If D2 and D3 are reversed on the board itself, what is labeled as "D3" should be the 1N4746 and what is labeled as "D2" should be the UF Diode.

Yes. The D2 and D3 marking on screen print have been exchanged (not reversed, which would mean reversal of direction!)

D2 should be next to the C6 470uF.

It's the "they should have been the same D1 or D6 as in the parts list, or D11 as in the circuit diagram" that is tripping my ambiguity sub-routine. I don't know what to make of the statement.

The input diode where the signal first enters the circuit is marked D11 in the diagram but is listed as D6 in the parts list. [And D6 is same part number as D1.] I hope it is clear now. 😇

The only other bit (that probably isn't a cause for concern) is that on the original Quad circuit it calls for 47uF Electrolytic caps connected to the 7805 (C1,C2 of original quad image) but I see 100uF (C4,C5) being used on the image immediately above.

The original quad image also calls for 47uF Electrolytic as C4 instead of 470uF as C6. 

If you read the full thread, you will find that Chris and others have tweaked the circuit to further optimise it. Best to stay with what they have settled on finally.

I connected the + output of the mosfet to the + of the PSU. The - of the PSU goes to the + of the primary coil. The output of the primary coil returns to the gnd/source. I only put 1V in.

This may not be enough to overcome the MOSFET internal resistance. You can safely put 3V for initial testing.

Maybe all the isolation makes it tricky to probe

Yes! I had problems just by connecting the probes inside the isolated portion because the probe ground was breaking the isolation.

Be careful not to probe the input and output with at the same time since the ground pins will short them and short the isolation!

Test only the output portions with just one probe only while disconnecting from all else. Even then there is the ground loop through the scope. But it should work for basic debugging. Or you can use two probes to form a pseudo-differential probe and use only inside the isolated portion.

I did look at your diodes and other parts as closely as was possible and they seem fine as far as I could make out.

The PWM signal can vary to +10V max.

Please check if your input signal is coming into the pin maked "P". Put a resistor in between to limit current to the 20mA which is the maximum for IL610. Aim for about 10 to 15mA for safety.

I'm powering the board with a 12V 1A wall brick.

Your 7805 then needs to dissipate nealy 0.7W. If it gets hot, do consider a heatsink. Or better, reduce your voltage to 7.5V. In the long run I would recommend getting am isolated dual variable power supply: one for the switching and other circuits and the other for the pulsing. You will want independent and accurate controls on both.

Finally, I would suggest to solder the MOSFET as close to the board as possible (unless you need the extra height for a heatsink). (Not critical though)

Hope this helps. 😇

Kritischer posted this 01 June 2023

I'm grateful that you guys see fit to reply at all. Thank you again @ISLab once again for the thoughtful comments and to you @Chris for removing the image filesize cap.

But note the correction to specs of D5 which should be 1N4733

I did catch that one and I am using the 1N4733 as indicated.

D1, D3, D11 are all IN5819 from the parts list. Make sure the MUR8100E specs match. But this may not be critical.

I was inclined to agree, but I ordered 1N5819 today to be consistent with the recommendation.
I located a stash of 1N5822 that looks like it might be in the same "58" family as the 5819 except that (at a glance) it has a higher current rating and so the leads have more meat on them. Because I couldn't wait, I ground them down so they would fit on the board and replaced the MUR8100E . Maybe I could have drilled, but sometimes when I do things it's because I don't know any better. The result should be the same.

Here's a few photos after re-working.

 

1

The D2 and D3 marking on screen print have been exchanged (not reversed, which would mean reversal of direction!)

Understood and thank you. Semantics matter. I swapped/exchanged them and maintained reverence of their Gnd terminal. 

The input diode where the signal first enters the circuit is marked D11 in the diagram but is listed as D6 in the parts list. [And D6 is same part number as D1.] I hope it is clear now. 😇

Thanks for putting up with the confusion. Quite clear.

 

The only other bit (that probably isn't a cause for concern) is that on the original Quad circuit it calls for 47uF Electrolytic caps connected to the 7805 (C1,C2 of original quad image) but I see 100uF (C4,C5) being used on the image immediately above.

The original quad image also calls for 47uF Electrolytic as C4 instead of 470uF as C6. 

If you read the full thread, you will find that Chris and others have tweaked the circuit to further optimize it. Best to stay with what they have settled on finally.

I'm positive it in there as you say. In any case the caps here are absolutely the 100uF

 

I connected the + output of the mosfet to the + of the PSU. The - of the PSU goes to the + of the primary coil. The output of the primary coil returns to the gnd/source. I only put 1V in.

This may not be enough to overcome the MOSFET internal resistance. You can safely put 3V for initial testing.

Ah ha. I will.

The PWM signal can vary to +10V max.

Please check if your input signal is coming into the pin maked "P". Put a resistor in between to limit current to the 20mA which is the maximum for IL610. Aim for about 10 to 15mA for safety.

The PWM input is going here

For what it's worth, this (BK Precision 4030) is the pulse generator I've been using. 

While set to the "INT RATE" it's 1-10V. With the XTAL it's 0.5-5V.

It didn't occur to me that I might damage the IL610 so I wanted to check.

So with the installed 470Ω limiting resistor, if the input signal was 100% duty and the pulse generator was set 10V max the input current would be 10V/470Ω=21.2mA, correct? Famous last words but it shouldn't be a risk, right?

I'm powering the board with a 12V 1A wall brick.

Your 7805 then needs to dissipate nearly 0.7W. If it gets hot, do consider a heatsink. Or better, reduce your voltage to 7.5V. 

Sinks are inbound arriving tomorrow. I'd like to see if I can get it working with 12V but only for lack of a 7.5V in my drawer. I would change to minimize dissipated heat.

Finally, I would suggest to solder the MOSFET as close to the board as possible (unless you need the extra height for a heatsink). 

The height is indeed for a sink. I can see how close I can get after.

I had problems just by connecting the probes inside the isolated portion because the probe ground was breaking the isolation.

Be careful not to probe the input and output with at the same time since the ground pins will short them and short the isolation!

Test only the output portions with just one probe only while disconnecting from all else. Even then there is the ground loop through the scope. But it should work for basic debugging. Or you can use two probes to form a pseudo-differential probe and use only inside the isolated portion.

OK so it's not just me.

After changing out the UF diodes to the IN5822 I set the other (bench) DC supply to 3V and connected across the primary load. 

Honestly, not a lot has changed. I set the pulse generator to ~10% duty at 100Hz, 1Khz, 10Khz

  1. I verified that the ~5V and ~15V were present where they belonged.
  2. set the scope to 1channel only and probed the gate and used the Gnd side of the 10KΩ (R5) as a Ref and didn't see anything resembling the input signal. I varied the pulse width to see if there was a change. It's like nothing makes a difference. Does this break isolation? I tried with no Ref but as you can imagine that was worse.
  3. probed across drain and sink and varied the pulse width. Nothing notable. Like always I tried to auto trigger.
  4. I can see the signal going into pin 2 of the IL610, but I wasn't able to capture the output on pin 6 when using the Gnd pins 5/7 as a probe reference 
  5. Got paranoid about the DIP sockets, turned everything off, did continuity checks from the top of all pins of each IC to the bottom of the PCB solder joint. About .5Ω for all of them (including probes) so I'm assuming there is proper contact.

For what it's worth I have the scope set to trigger on ch1 rising edge and it's set to DC coupling. If you think my issue is related to a scope setting I can try to rule it out, but since I can see the PWM signal from the benchtop generator I didn't think it was worth trying to troubleshoot the scope settings.

For context I had been using this thing with a different coil setup and I was able to get a light to glow. It seemed to have better isolation than this other thing. In both of those cases I was able to probe the coils and see significant voltage from a 5V drop across the primary. While I'm convinced this AU sanctioned switching circuit is the right tool, clearly I have work to do.

I do have access to HV differential probes and a high speed current monitor. I can break them out whenever but I don't think I'm there yet.

Just for my sanity I'm going to try another IL610. I can't reconcile why I'm not seeing anything on output pin 6.

 

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Kritischer posted this 01 June 2023

I swapped out the IL610 after putting a 1kΩ in series between the signal generator and the IL610 input. Actually I tried with and without the additional 1kΩ with no real change.

Should I be paranoid about the ESR of caps? I did get the 100uF caps from Amazon.

I have one of these ESR Meters and for a 100uF (25V) it calls out a max ESR of .32Ω.
The green caps from Amazon read ~.28Ω.
By contrast I located a kit of capacitors. The ones in that kit are around ~.2Ω.

Think they are worth changing? "It can't hurt", right?

I know ESR can matter, and this seems like it might be one of those applications where it might. 

The signals I've been seeing are really noisy. At best  (probing Drain and Source) I was able to see the waveform change when adjusting the pulse width, but the voltage max was a few hundred mV.

I'm out of ideas. In the absence of new ones I might change the MOSFET but not before verifying the value of each component and location against the diagram.

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Chris posted this 01 June 2023

Hey Kritischer,

Check IC Power, then Signal, and see where the failure occurs.

Without clearer images, the Zener Diode by the IL610 appears to be backwards, but it is hard to tell because the images are not clear.

 

Check the IC Ve+ Power, that's the first step. Although you said you have the right voltage on the 610, check it all again.

Your Output Signal should be exactly the same as your Input Signal! There is something wrong if you cant see that!

Follow 100% the schematic, and it will work!

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Kritischer posted this 01 June 2023

 

Without clearer images, the Zener Diode by the IL610 appears to be backwards, but it is hard to tell because the images are not clear.

The image shown was from someone else's build but I'm pretty sure you knew that and are just using it for illustrative purposes. In any case I can provide a better photo.

Full top view

top full

 

Had you meant the (red arrow) Zener near the IL610 or the (yellow arrow) Zener that was circled in your example?

The parts line up with the white silk layer on the board. Is that wrong? I would love for one of these to be wrong.

 

Here's a better side view where the direction of D2 (1N4746), D3 (1N5822), and D4 (1N5408) 

side full

 

Check the IC Ve+ Power, that's the first step. Although you said you have the right voltage on the 610, check it all again.

Will do ASAP.

Your Output Signal should be exactly the same as your Input Signal! There is something wrong if you cant see that!

Understood and clarified.

 

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Kritischer posted this 01 June 2023

Ah ha. I believe D2 (1N4746) labeled D3 on the board was installed polarity reversed.

You can see here that the line is facing the ground side...

 

..which is wrong compared to the diagram.

 

I'm replacing it now and am feeling optimistic about testing later. Fingers crossed.

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Kritischer posted this 02 June 2023

I replaced the offending1N4746, this time with the diode in the proper position.

Also replaced the MCP1403.

The IL610 was replaced last night.

Measuring 5V on pin 8 of the IL610 and 15V on pin 6 of the MCP.

I set a single probe set to 10x (probe and scope) on pin 2 of the IL610 to verify input signal.

I can't see anything out of pin6 of the IL610, using pin 5 as the reference.

I tried probing on the other side of the 1K resistor R2 to the same null effect.

I see nothing matching the input signal (1khz 10% Duty) on pin 5 of the MCP1403 using pins 1,8, and 3 as a reference.

3V supply running through the MOSFET, with the MOSFET on the high side of the inductive load.

Probed the gate with respect to pins 1,3,8 of the MCP, and with respect to the Gnd side of the 10K resistor R5

Probed the secondary with no reference.

I hit auto calibrate after changing probe positions. I'm running a diagnostic on the scope and am going to reset to factory defaults.

Despite checking continuity of the 2 dip package pins to the bottom of the board I might replace them

I feel like it's time to replace other parts but it's getting late.

Dammit. I really thought I had it.

 

 

 

 

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thaelin posted this 02 June 2023

I may be wrong but on the MPC1403 you have 2 and 4 as inputs the same. Output has 5 and 7 together. One side is inverting and the other is not. That may cause buss contention, a high and a low at the same time. Try using just 5 or 7 alone depending on which way you want the output. Inverted or not.  

thay

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Chris posted this 02 June 2023

Hey Thay,

The MCP1403 datasheet explains:

 

So, if one uses the wrong Chip, then yes this may be a possibility, but if one has the MCP1403, then this is not the case.

@Kritischer, stick with it, you will figure out what the problem is, remove the MCP1403 and scope the signal, you should see the Signal input there from the IL610?

Best Wishes,

   Chris

 

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donovan posted this 02 June 2023

Hi, all!

If this has not been solved yet, may I get involved!

My day job is an electronics technician, troubleshooting down to the component level.

So, what I would do:

-just use 1 scope channel in the beginning. with nothing connected to the MOSFET O/P

-You say you have DC PS voltage on the 610, good, but you can check this with the scope ground on the PS  ground, and probe both the supply pin and the ground pin on the 610.

-next, ground the scope probe on your generator and probe both pins 2 and 3 and see what you get on each pin.  doing some quick math in my head, you should see about signal amplitude across these pins aroiund .25-.5V (anyone can correct me here). (We could use diff probes here to get this measurement, but no need to make things complicated when a little math in our heads and some careful measurements will get the job done.)

-after we see whats on the two input pins of the 610, we can proceed...

Donovan

 

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Kritischer posted this 02 June 2023

Thank you for weighing in Donovan. I appreciate you.

For the heck of it I also inspected the DIP socket pins (between the board and socket housing) to make sure I didn't do something like use too much solder and shorted across them.

For things that require verification/proof, I can absolutely supply photos or scope images when I'm back on the bench.  Frustration shuts down the frame of mind necessary for troubleshooting. I'm committed to this project, but I struggle to not get upset with my limitations.

you say you have DC PS voltage on the 610, good, but you can check this with the scope ground on the PS  ground, and probe both the supply pin and the ground pin on the 610.

I had used a multimeter to verify 100% that the IL610 has ~5.5V on pin 8.

I  have not used the multimeter or scope with the Gnd of the 12V supply as a reference, but I will anyway and will report.

 

ground the scope probe on your generator and probe both pins 2 and 3 and see what you get on each pin.

Using the scope (even with no ref) on pin 2,3, and either side of R1 I do see the signal from the generator. I'm positive of this because this is the only place I see anything....

ground the scope probe on your generator

This isn't something I've done yet and you mentioning it makes me think I'm missing something important.

I'm using a 12V wall wart (from a TP Link router) as the supply for the switching.

I think I'm technically using a separate supply reference (signal generator) into the PWM negitive input.

The back of the signal generator has a Gnd terminal.

Should I attach a wire from the rear of the signal generator (Gnd) to the negative terminal that supplies 12V to the board?

Is it possible that the 12V supply has it's own isolation and not connecting the signal generator to Gnd would cause a problem in some instances (despite reading 5V on the IL610)?

after we see whats on the two input pins of the 610, we can proceed

I will provide a scope screenshot/photo of this.

To date, I have never seen anything coming out of the IL610 on pin 6. That's on 2 devices.

I'll consider and try anything. I can supply 7.5-12VDC another way, I can build up a new board. I'm still a bit suspicious of the 100uF caps because their ESR is a little high compared to some others, but I haven't changed those out yet.

The feedback I'm getting here is thoughtful and genuine. My real problems start when I run out of things to try and everyone else runs out of ideas based on their experiences.

Kritischer posted this 02 June 2023

Something else I wanted to poll the community on.

I had substituted  1N5822 for the 1N5819 on this build so far after having tried first using the MUR8100E without success.

They both (1N5819 / 1N5822) look like they are designed with low forward voltage drop and fast switching times.

The main difference appears to be that the 5822 has a higher forward current rating (and larger size)

 

 

I did order the 1N5819's and they should arrive tomorrow. 

I believe Chris and ISLab said this should be ok, but since I didn't precisely follow the BOM for this part I wanted to see if there are any glaring inconsistencies that I missed. Just trying to rule out anything I can.

I'd love to find out that my main problem is related to not bringing in the Gnd terminal from the back of the signal generator.

On the topic of heat sinks:

I attached this one to the SiC MOSFET (C3M0065090D) using a compressible graphite adhesive film.

For what it's worth, this stuff is a far better thermal interface material than CPU grease or even the best thermal epoxies.

I've seen thermal epoxies with thermal conductivity below 1 W/mK.

The best epoxy I've ever seen (from Dupont) had ~12 W/mK.

These sheets conduct heat hundreds of times faster and are clean and simple to worth with.

 

Thinking about heat I did have observation I made last night that I didn't think to document.
We know the 7805 gets hot.
Today I located a 7.5VDC supply to replace the 12V. which should help. Sinks for the 7805's are on the way.

I had noticed that the IL610 was also getting warm to the touch but not nearly as hot as the 7805.

I'm not sure if it was due to passive heat conduction across the copper traces (from the 7805) or if I managed to toast 2x IL610's using 10V output from the signal generator. I just thought it was worth mentioning that the IL610 was starting to get a bit warm after being on for 45mins or so.

If this question doesn't get addressed I will tend to assume this is normal.

Otherwise, happy Friday to everyone reading this. I hope you and your loved ones are all in good heath and spirits.

 

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donovan posted this 02 June 2023

Hi,

Yes, lets see if we can figure this out....we will all learn.

With no O/P from the 610, and you have 5.5V on the Power I/P for the 610, lets concentrate on that.

I am assuming your scope is isolated from ground, with an isolation transformer, or a ground lift plug.

And I guess the 12V PS ground will also be in the circuit.

When troubleshooting like this I like to put my scope ground as close as possible to the signal source ground.  And scope both the 610 input high side and input ground side.  (One of the most important things is to keep an open mind when troubleshooting......I have had many people say things like, ground is ground, why measure it.....yes, but your troubleshooting....is it really ground, or is that the problem...)  I hope that makes sense.....we want to see if there is actually a signal present at the I/P pins....I am not too familar with the 610, so some of my numbers may need to be confirmed.  it is a transformer input device, with an impedance of around 85 ohms, and it needs about 5ma for a logic 0 and < .5ma for a logic 1, so just some quick math in my head we should see about .425 V signal at the 610 I/P for a high and less than about .0425 V for a low.  (And this can be confirmed another way by measuring the voltage across the limit resistor and doing the math to find the current.). 

Check out this and see if you have a reasonable input......then we can move to the next step.

It's a busy time of year for me.....I need to get back on my experiments on above unity!!!

I hope this helps.

Donovan

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Chris posted this 02 June 2023

Hey Guys,

Stupid question, but, Kritischer, you have checked the Input Signal is 5V from the Zero Graticule Line to Peak and not 5.5V from Peak to Peak?

Of course, this will be an issue if you have made this mistake, it needs 5V Input Signal, not 2.5V Positive and 2.5V Negative, not Negative Going Signals, not AC Signals.

This is a very simple circuit and I have not seen anyone have such trouble with it, normally it is an easy build and its just works, 100% Solid and Reliable!

Its going to be one of three things:

  1. Bad Part
  2. Bad Placement or Connection
  3. or an Input Signal Issue - No the IL610 should not be getting hot/warm!

 

if everything else checks out ok, then its got to be something very simple that you are overlooking.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Kritischer posted this 03 June 2023

Stupid question, but, Kritischer, you have checked the Input Signal is 5V from the Zero Graticule Line to Peak and not 5.5V from Peak to Peak?

Of course, this will be an issue if you have made this mistake, it needs 5V Input Signal, not 2.5V Positive and 2.5V Negative, not Negative Going Signals, not AC Signals.

 

 I switched from a 12VDC supply to one labeled 7.5VDC per recommendation. I don't know how that could happen.

This is a very simple circuit and I have not seen anyone have such trouble with it, normally it is an easy build and its just works, 100% Solid and Reliable!

I tried to explain that I struggle. Even so, I have done other things that I feel have been more difficult. This is painful.

This summarizes the changes to the board. Sorry for the text.

Last night I replaced both sockets and installed new chips, and replaced the 100uF caps.

I started getting paranoid about the Signal generator Negative with respect to the Gnd lug on the back vs the DC supply so I put this together so I could jump in or jump out the Gnd.

I verified continuity of everything seen.

 

IL610 Voltage

 

The MCP has power, but I don't know why it's over 16V with the 7.5V supply (if it's even related) It  used to be ~15.5V when I was using the 12V supply, but then again I did make the grounds common. I don't know.

 

There is signal on the IL610 input

 

But when I probe the output and hit Auto I don't see anything resembling the input signal.

I tried using the reference shown, but I also tried using pins 1/4/7/5 and they all look like this

The input signal hasn't changed from 1Khz 8% duty at this point. I did hit auto on the scope.
The signal is low and I don't know where 71.9Khz is coming from.

 

Donovan had said to scope grounds anyway. 

I shouldn't be seeing anything like what I'm seeing here should I?

 (One of the most important things is to keep an open mind when troubleshooting......I have had many people say things like, ground is ground, why measure it.....yes, but your troubleshooting....is it really ground, or is that the problem...)  I hope that makes sense.....we want to see if there is actually a signal present at the I/P pins..

There's a big difference between what happens in simulation and theory and what actually happens in practice. Real bench guys develop different subtle relationships with equipment and over the years develop practices that an armchair technician might scoff at. Some things might even seem superstitious. When a guy with 10k hrs on the bench suggests something it's probably worth the effort. 

I have not seen anyone have such trouble with it,

I am he. Behold!

At this point I'm just waiting to see if replacing the IN5822 with the 1N5819 does anything.

Outside of that.. the only thing I could blame besides myself is the wiring.

My house is very old and the wiring isn't great. To make it worse, I'm 25m across the property in my barn that is powered by wiring going from the main building to the barn. I don't see a separate ground rod. I have never had a problem with other electronics but this is more sensitive instrumentation. I thought it was worth mentioning.

I am assuming your scope is isolated from ground, with an isolation transformer, or a ground lift plug.

The scope is a Rigol DS1054Z that I purchased for this project. I scoured the manual for references to grounding and isolation but didn't find any. It's not safe to assume. I am not using either a separate isolation transformer nor a ground lift plug. 

If I'm not doing something right, it's because I don't know any better or it's the first time something has mattered.

To rule out my AC mains I'm going to bring over my Honda EU2000 generator and try using that.

 

 

Chris posted this 03 June 2023

Hi K,

I mean the Input Signal to the IL610, you need to make sure this is DC PWM 5V.

Stupid question, but, Kritischer, you have checked the Input Signal is 5V from the Zero Graticule Line to Peak and not 5.5V from Peak to Peak?

Of course, this will be an issue if you have made this mistake, it needs 5V Input Signal, not 2.5V Positive and 2.5V Negative, not Negative Going Signals, not AC Signals.

 

This scope shot being labeled as "Input Signal":

 

 

Has insufficient Amplitude, so it appears your Input Signal to the IL610 is also insufficient Amplitude, 5V DC, with no AC. This is the Signal coming out of your Function Generator.

Please scope this and lets have another review.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Kritischer posted this 03 June 2023

To clarify, this is what I thought the input of the IL610 was

There is signal on the IL610 input

 

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donovan posted this 04 June 2023

Hi,

Great effort in troubleshooting!  When I am troubleshooting with a client, I always tell them......I am going to ask a million questions, and probably the same question many times, but bear with me, as it helps in my troubleshooting.....You have presented a lot of info here, hopefully I don't mess any of it up.

Yes, an isolation transformer is best to run the scope, but for many years I just carry a ground lift plug with me for the scope.  Simple and effective, and relatively safe if you are aware of the limitations.  I am not familar with all scopes, but that has been my practice.  I would go that way over the Honda Generator, that may introduce a bunch of new problems.

The one scope shot you see the 500mV P-P 70 kHz waveform.   (Chris, did you mention, this may be coming from the generator?  Maybe artifacts from it?)  It may be that is leftovers of the RK0515 DC-DC converter, that runs at 50 - 105 kHz, depending on a variety of factors.  When you measured this waveform, you had the scope ground on the Signal generator ground and measured the grounds on the 610.....NOW....really these two grounds you measure between should be an open... isolation provided by the RF0515....so you may measure all sorts of interesting stuff!!!  We don't need it there, but it's there, let's just keep that in the back of our mind right now.....

From this discussion.....really when measuring the input signal and related PS, the scope ground should be on the signal generator ground......and when measuring the output signal and related PS, the scope ground should be on the RK0515 ground.

You could remove the ground from the SIgnal Generator Chassis, just to make things even simpler....

And (with everything powered off) you could measure with an Ohm meter, the resistance between the signal generator ground and the RK0515 ground......it should be an Open.....

Do you have anything connected to the MOSFET O/P?  If so, disconnect it at this stage of troubleshooting.

In the one photo/test you measured from the generator/PS ground to Pin 2 of the 610, ideally, at the same instant I would have made the same measurement but to Pin 3 of the 610, and and the difference will be exactly what is going into the 610.  You measured a nice 10 V waveform from ground to 10V on Pin 2, that is perfect.  And I would expect to see a similar waveform but from ground to about 9V peak (just for a round number.......after enough troubleshooting a person realizes there are about 3 levels of approximation or accuracies that will speed up the process) at this point we don't need to know if it is 9.2 or 8.8, just as long as it is not identical or Zero.....We need to have good PS voltage (which it looks like you do) and we need to have a good I/P signal to move on to the next step.

As Chris said, it is pretty simple.....but even I have spent way too much time troubleshooting the simple ones!

I hope this helps.  Some of it may be seem not needed, but it will help us really understand the circuit.

I love troubleshooting!!!

Donovan

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donovan posted this 04 June 2023

Hi,

Yes, 99.99% of wall wart PS are isolated from ground, and the way you have the signal generator and PS connected with test leads should be perfectly fine.  Although I would remove the Generator Chassis ground, just to make it simpler.

Donovan

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Chris posted this 04 June 2023

Hey Kritischer,

In your scope shot:

 

You're up around 7.7 Volts, way to high, that's why the IL610 is getting hot/warm. 5 Volts peak, max, is where you need to be! It is DC by the looks, so that's good!

Remove your MCP1403 and scope the Output Signal from your IL610, lets see what the open Circuit Output Signal is like?

@Donovan, I agree, I also like to troubleshoot, but get short on patience from time to time. This circuit has pretty good isolation, but yes some noise gets through. If one has a noisy source, then the mosfet will be noisy also.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

ISLab posted this 04 June 2023

Hi @Kritischer,

Just a suggestion to start testing from scratch, and follow these steps:

1. remove both ICs, and check the voltage levels for 5V and 15V, and across all caps and resisters for open or shorts. If all is ok, then:
2. insert only IL610 and check signal input and output. If all is well then:
3. insert MCP and check signal.

You may just have an issue at step 1 itself.

Btw, is your RK-0515S the exactly correct part number? The "S" at the end can make all the difference, if I recall right. There are a few variations that are numbered very similar.

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donovan posted this 05 June 2023

Hi,

Did some quick research, RK0515S;

is the single O/P version as opposed to the RK0515D;

which is the dual O/P version.

Other suffix letters indicate the rated isolation voltage.

Donovan

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Kritischer posted this 05 June 2023

Long story shorter: I replaced the 1N5822 with the 1N5819 and the channel started working! Perhaps the incorrect reversed Zener (that was fixed) created a situation where one of the 1N5822's became damaged, so the new 1N5819 resolved something.

I knew it was working when I heard the metglas cores clink together. The DC power supply was set to 3V However, the current on the power supply was high.. like 4A so I shut down the PS to check a few things. I was switching on the high side of the inductive load FYI. The MOSFET I was using had an Rds of 65mΩ.

Before I use both POC's I wanted to see if I could make a transformer first so I put one of the 1N5822's on one of the POC's and connected a 40W lightbulb (too high a rating?). Making slight changes to frequency and duty cycle had a big difference on the current being drawn, very sensitive. I wasn't able to see any light glowing as a swept across frequency with a 50% duty cycle. I tried both POC's with a diode in both directions and still didn't see any light.

Full disclosure, I then accidentally damaged the C3M0065090D  due to negligence. I had shorted one of the POC's and was trying to measure across a 1Ω resistor...

Yes. Stupid.

Since I will need another channel, I built another one this time using an IRPF460 which has an Rds of 270mΩ.

That channel is less touchy so I put the IRPF460 on the first channel (which now doesn't work again). I'm going to change some parts out later but that's my fault. The circuit (second channel) does work.

The main contributing reason (besides negligence) of why I think I blew a channel is because I still can't see what's going on using the scope.

I wanted to start this post by saying I made progress. I expect to still need to spend time getting to the point where I can light a light as a transformer. Troubleshooting that probably doesn't belong here.

When you say ground lift plug, do you mean these?

Is this an example of how I would connect the Ground of an unused channel to the lift plug? I will try this later too.

Overall I'm extremely grateful for your thoughtful comments and that I got something to work, but understand that I need to re-read your latest troubleshooting steps when I'm on the bench. There's more to learn from those comments.

I did end up connecting the Honda Generator. The circuit still worked and I did see less noise when probing... but I'm still not doing something right if I can't see the signal coming out of the MCP1403 of a working device

I'm almost to the point where I can start to spend time tuning the device itself. You can expect those questions to go in their relevant post by topic.

thaelin posted this 05 June 2023

Hey there:

   Just for the record, I am now coming up along side of you with a amcc 0400 and 200 turns l2 and l3. Figure 20 turns for l1. Long time trying to use what at hand and didn't work as I wanted. Will be starting my own thread but wanted to give encouragement any way I can.

thay

 

 

donovan posted this 07 June 2023

Hi,

Yes, that is just the ground lift plug I use!

When grounding the scope, use only the ground clip at the end of the scope probe.

99.99% of time when using multichannel scopes, I will remove the ground leads from all the scope probes except Channel One, (which would be my trigger channel......)

It is more important to have no ground loops as opposed to maybe a little bit more noise on the other channels.

I have trained a few people in my time......and I think it also is more important, to just put up with a little noise.....rather than be lead down the garden path by accidental ground loops.

Grounding by itself is a life time of learning to understand all the nuances.

Great job!!!

Donovan

Kritischer posted this 07 June 2023

Thank you all again tremendously for the thoughtful comments and guidance.

 

I have had repeated success using the 2nd (top) channel.

I changed diodes, resistors, and the RK0515 on the bottom most recently. 

Now that I know where to probe across easiest (pin 1 of IL610 and one side of 1kΩ off pin 6) the signal presence is obvious and clean. I'm now positive (or have at least convinced myself) that I damaged the other IL610's. I should probably swap the one from the top, but I hate these chinsy dip sockets and don't want to push my luck. I ordered more IL610's expedited because I need at least 2 channels this time around.

I had the setup ringing last night while trying to light a bulb as a regular transformer. I didn't get there yet but the switching definitely works and the rise times are < 20nS. I saw upwards of 140V p2p from a 4.5V input from the PS. I need to get better at taking scope shots for my next post, which may be here or somewhere else on the forum. 

Tinker posted this 27 January 2024

Hi all, @Chris, just wondering if you have gerber files for the lastest switching PCB or happy to purchase if you still have some available? I read through this thread a couple of times and watched most of the videos however please excuse my ignorance with the next few questions/clarifications as I’m still pretty new to this.   So if I understand correctly the board has a power supply of approx 5V to run it’s circuit, it takes a PWM signal from any function generator source (Ardunio or dedicated Function Generator), and switches an external power supply based on the PWM signal. 

So;

  1. Does it switch positive and negative from the power supply? From what I could see in one example you were  switching the negative only.
  2. Is there a max voltage and/or current that can be switched?
  3. Is there a max frequency for switching?
  4. You mentioned this is 4 channels, do we need all 4 for our experiments or is this just for redundancy/backup?

Thanks in advance. If this is not relevant to this thread please IM me.

Neale

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Chris posted this 27 January 2024

Hi Neale,

Gerbers are attached to this thread, you will need to read through the thread.

Both High Side and Low side switching can be done.

The rest depends on your application, what mosfets you put in.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

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Tinker posted this 28 January 2024

Ooops, rookie mistake on my part. I saw the post box at the bottom of page 1 and thought that was it. My apologies, am continuing to read. Lesson learnt!

 

Neale

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Phil posted this 28 January 2024

Hi Neale,

I can send you a PCB for free as I have a spare.

PM me your address and I'll send it ASAP.

I can probably add some components with it as well.

Cheers,

Phil

Tinker posted this 20 February 2024

Good afternoon from Australia,

Now that my 4-channel switching setup is built and operational I've begun replicating simple experiments and thoroughly enjoying the process. Having already gained a lot of knowledge, I decided to revisit some videos in search of fresh insights. During my viewing of "Non-Inductive Coil Experiment - Video One" by @Chris, the Capacitor Protection Block was mentioned, prompting me to quickly recognise that it's cheap insurance for my power supply.  I have looked around the internet for ideas and I'm hoping some members can lean in with what they use and perhaps offer some circuits.  Thanks in advance.

 

Neale

PS -  I have 4 spare circuitboards available if anyone would like them, no charge. @Chris perhaps you can assist in allocating them or is it first to IM me?

 

This is the Capacitor block. - looks straight forward but just want to confirm. Thanks again

I need this

Chris posted this 21 February 2024

Hey Neale,

Sorry for the late reply, been busy.

The Capacitor Array and Protection Diodes are not important, but yes they can:

  1. Protect your Power Supply.
  2. Show, that Power coming back does occur by Blocking the returning Power, via the Diodes.
  3. Change the state of operation of your machine.

 

You need to be careful with these sorts of things, because a simple Cap Bank and Diodes can change the operation of the whole Circuit, which can throw you off track, so beware of this!

Its a very simple circuit, here is a pic of the PCB:

 

Pretty straight forward.

Best Wishes,

   Chris

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